Double Bass Hybrid VS Fully Carved - Difference?

[James Petno]

Hey everyone, I'm thinking about purchasing a double bass within the next few years, and I'm trying to do as much research as I can because Obviously a bass is a considerably large investment. I personally do a lot of solo and orchestral playing. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with any information regarding the benefits, differences, similarities, and general price ranges on the average hybrid and fully carved. Maybe a few favored brands, or models. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

-James

 

[Sam Dingle]

Hey everyone, I'm thinking about purchasing a double bass within the next few years, and I'm trying to do as much research as I can because Obviously a bass is a considerably large investment. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with any information regarding the benefits, differences, similarities, and general price ranges on the average hybrid and fully carved. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

-James

What kind of playing do you plan to do on it?

I believe a fully carved instrument gets you a lot of really great qualities and in a purist way, allows the instrument to vibrate better and fuller. You will get a much richer sound under the bow.

A hybrid is great because it (all things being equal like strings, size set up etc) it will give you some very nice sound qualities, but may not be as rich as a fully carved.

Non of this is saying you have to eventually get a fully carved bass. I happen to have one because I love bowing and if you do that, you really want, dare I say NEED the sound of a fully carved instrument.

I think for say a student going into college or as a first bass, its great to get a hybrid because arco on that will be much better than on a plywood bass. Plywood basses should be left to simply pizz and slap playing IMO and of course this is in an ideal situation.

I have 2 basses. An old fully carved bass that sounds great under the bow and pizz. And a hybrid that I personally only use for outdoor pizz playing, but it would work fine for minimal or low stress arco work like in a pit orchestra.

So my suggestion is if you can afford a fully carved bass then go with that. You won't regret it unless you play 90% outside. A quality hybrid is not a bad option at all especially if you are just starting but I think most people will eventually desire a fully carved bass.

There are always accessions to that rule. Chris Fitzgerald loves his Lascala and thats a hybrid bass. I wouldn't know seeing him play it.

 

[VictorW126]

If you have already read the TB-Bass Guide, then you need to get your own experience.
Beginners Guide to Buying a Double Bass | TalkBass.com

 

[Dabndug]

To add to @Sam Dingle's excellent comments, a good ply bass may also be the ticket, depending upon the kind of music you want to play. A good ply will give a very acceptable pizz sound and be more forgiving from a durability point of view than either a carved or hybrid bass. This is particularly relevant as it takes time to appreciate how to take care of an instrument when you're starting out - making rookie care errors on a ply bass will be way less costly than on a carved bass. It could also save you some pennies relative to carved and hybrid basses of equivalent build quality, which can help fund other requirements.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I think Sam nailed it above. For arco playing, fully carved allows the entire body to vibrate more freely. I asked a prominent luthier a few years back if he thought I should upgrade to a fully carved bass, and he took me aside and told me (out of earshot of others in the vicinity) that for what I do a hybrid is probably a better choice. I do enjoy how it stays in tune for weeks at a time even when the weather changes.

For whatever reason, I've only ever found one carved bass that felt equal or better for what I do than the hybrid bass I already own. It was $38K, and while I would love to have it, it's not something that I "need" to do what I do, and as such the expense would be pretty hard to justify to my family. Since I've found the perfect hybrid, my attitude has pretty much been that I don't need a better bass - I just need to play the bass I have better.

If I were primarily an arco player, though, I would get a fully carved bass.

 

[damonsmith]

I've also read that a ply back bounces the sound off faster, which I am not sure if that is true. I think it was an article about the Guy/Dawson travel bass.
My travel bass is a hybrid and it is impressive, I am always glad to get back to my old fully carved bass. Hybrids seem to be more durable, also.
The one thing many people overlook is how things are physically to play. A fully carved bass has a quality that once it is vibrating, it is less physical effort to keep it vibrating.

For the price, sound and durability, Shen hybrids seem to be the best "brand" to recommend. All basses are different, but, these have a great track record and won't hold you back.

 

[Scott Lynch]

Hey everyone, I'm thinking about purchasing a double bass within the next few years, and I'm trying to do as much research as I can because Obviously a bass is a considerably large investment. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with any information regarding the benefits, differences, similarities, and general price ranges on the average hybrid and fully carved. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

-James

Welcome to Talkbass, James.

Though I'm repeating a lot of what has already been said -

Read the "Beginner's guide" Wiki linked above, which should answer most of your general questions.

Let us know what type of playing you are interested in learning - classical, jazz, blue grass, rockabilly, some thing else? This will help us give you more specific recommendations.

Lastly, in addition to the wiki, there a number of threads already on this topic on the DB forum. The search feature on Talkbass is a great tool to use to gather more information on this subject. Go to the "Basses (DB)" forum, plug in "Hybrid vs Carved" in the search engine and see what shows up.

Happy researching!

 

[powerbass]

I just put new lighter gauge strings on my hybrid and I fell in love all over again. Buy a bass you can learn on and grow with, figure out how to get the best possible sound out of it then maybe down the road you can invest in a another bass that will support your development.

 

[james condino]

Play them all; the right bass will choose you....

 

[James Petno]

What kind of playing do you plan to do on it?

I believe a fully carved instrument gets you a lot of really great qualities and in a purist way, allows the instrument to vibrate better and fuller. You will get a much richer sound under the bow.

A hybrid is great because it (all things being equal like strings, size set up etc) it will give you some very nice sound qualities, but may not be as rich as a fully carved.

Non of this is saying you have to eventually get a fully carved bass. I happen to have one because I love bowing and if you do that, you really want, dare I say NEED the sound of a fully carved instrument.

I think for say a student going into college or as a first bass, its great to get a hybrid because arco on that will be much better than on a plywood bass. Plywood basses should be left to simply pizz and slap playing IMO and of course this is in an ideal situation.

I have 2 basses. An old fully carved bass that sounds great under the bow and pizz. And a hybrid that I personally only use for outdoor pizz playing, but it would work fine for minimal or low stress arco work like in a pit orchestra.

So my suggestion is if you can afford a fully carved bass then go with that. You won't regret it unless you play 90% outside. A quality hybrid is not a bad option at all especially if you are just starting but I think most people will eventually desire a fully carved bass.

There are always accessions to that rule. Chris Fitzgerald loves his Lascala and thats a hybrid bass. I wouldn't know seeing him play it.

What kind of playing do you plan to do on it?

I believe a fully carved instrument gets you a lot of really great qualities and in a purist way, allows the instrument to vibrate better and fuller. You will get a much richer sound under the bow.

A hybrid is great because it (all things being equal like strings, size set up etc) it will give you some very nice sound qualities, but may not be as rich as a fully carved.

Non of this is saying you have to eventually get a fully carved bass. I happen to have one because I love bowing and if you do that, you really want, dare I say NEED the sound of a fully carved instrument.

I think for say a student going into college or as a first bass, its great to get a hybrid because arco on that will be much better than on a plywood bass. Plywood basses should be left to simply pizz and slap playing IMO and of course this is in an ideal situation.

I have 2 basses. An old fully carved bass that sounds great under the bow and pizz. And a hybrid that I personally only use for outdoor pizz playing, but it would work fine for minimal or low stress arco work like in a pit orchestra.

So my suggestion is if you can afford a fully carved bass then go with that. You won't regret it unless you play 90% outside. A quality hybrid is not a bad option at all especially if you are just starting but I think most people will eventually desire a fully carved bass.

There are always accessions to that rule. Chris Fitzgerald loves his Lascala and thats a hybrid bass. I wouldn't know seeing him play it.

Thank you for the info! You're clearly pretty educated on the matter. I personally do a lot of bowing for solos and orchestral. You're advice will be heeded.

 

[turf3]

I bought my bass after renting a hybrid and studying for a little over a year. From pretty much the beginning I felt the hybrids and solids had a richer sound than the all-plywood, although there was a German plywood that was awfully close.

But honestly between solid top and all carved, I felt the differences bass to bass were way bigger than the effect of solid ribs and back vs. plywood. I ended up with a solid but I could just have easily gone for a hybrid.

 

[Tom Lane]

I've written this story before, but, okay... I try to give back for all the great advice I've received... when I went to buy my last upright, I went to a few local shops and played everything they had. In one case, I had the entire place to myself for an entire afternoon. I literally played every bass I could access, from $30K basses to $1,500 plys. I found two basses that were better than the one I chose, but they were both well out of my price range. I thought that was cool, I knew what I gave up. They were "better", but only slightly and some could argue that they were just different, not really better, depending on the music you typically play.
I did discover that I could almost always very quickly tell the difference between a ply, a hybrid and a fully carved bass. That said, I've played Chris Fitzgerald's ply and can testify that it has a great tone. Could I tell it was ply? Yeah, but a really nice one. It just doesn't have the same depth of Rufus' pre-century carved.
What's best for you? I say, play 'em all. If after that you can live with a ply or a hybrid, save the bucks. If the additional nuance and depth of a carved bass is a must-have for you... save your pennies because lesser won't do.

 

[groooooove]

some affordable carved basses can be a nightmare - a quality hybrid (especially the shen rogeri for it's price, upton also does a nice job at a good price point) can be a great investment.

I hate to give this answer, but it really comes down to the specific basses. the only definite thing is that hybrids are certainly more resistant to weather changes / general use.

more important than carved vs hybrid is setup of the particular bass. a "great" carved bass in poor setup can sound/feel like a dog, and also be somewhat expensive to get back into prime playing shape. a well setup hybrid will always out perform a carved bass in need of some love.

 

[damonsmith]

I am just coming home from tour with my Chadwick hybrid (made from a Shen), the day I got back I played a gig with my old carved flat back, there is a level of nuance you can only get from a seasoned old fully carved bass.
My Chadwick is solidly adequate and probably the best travel option out there.
A nice hybrid isn't going to get in your way or really hold you back, but, I've yet to hear one with much richness in the tone.

 

[powerbass]

My observations about hybrid/carved. I think the back is a critical part of the overall sound and feel of a bass. I recently restored a solid carved bass (Hammond Ashley Bass Restore). Once I got it together and started playing it I immediately noticed how much the back vibrated compared to my Thompson RM200 hybrid. The hybrid has always felt stiff to me, the carved bass was so soft and vibrated so freely. Looking inside the RM200 in addition to the ply back there is another layer of plywood that goes across the back, I think the overall sum of this results in a very stiff instrument

 

[Fretless55]

Noted.

Given what it is, are you happy overall with your Thompson RM200 and how did it compare to other hybrids you’ve played.
I’m playing a hybrid Strunal 5/35 (which is unequivocally “OK”...) and wonder if a RM200 would be an upgrade.

Thanks

 

[powerbass]

Noted.

Given what it is, are you happy overall with your Thompson RM200 and how did it compare to other hybrids you’ve played.
I’m playing a hybrid Strunal 5/35 (which is unequivocally “OK”...) and wonder if a RM200 would be an upgrade.

Thanks

I am very pleased w/the RM200, it is a solid, stable instrument. I made several adjustments to make it more playable - wire tailpiece, wood end pin, filed the string nut, light gauge strings. I have not played many hybrids so I can't comment on that.

 

[rknea]

I guess the saying of "you don't know what you don't know" is pretty relevant when it comes to purchasing a bass. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case might be) I live in an area with very minimal UB resources. I've gone from a Shen 80 laminate, to a NS 5 string EUB (due to space constraints) and 3 years ago purchased a Krutz 200 Hybrid.

Not having anything to play it "against" I'm not sure how the sound compares to anything else. I haven't had any complaints with it though as I play in a big band and a couple of jazz combo's. My chief complaint is that it has a really substantial neck that I'm not really a fan. Apparently this is common with a lot of the Chinese made basses.

I played a '37 Kay last year and fell in love with the feel of the thinner neck and dang...the sound was boomy and loud, which apparently is common of the ply's...right? I know I can get the neck on my Krutz thinned a bit and have a new setup for my playing style (95% pizz at this time), but I also have a bad case of GAS and I'm looking at either an old Kay or Am Standard, Juzek, and even considering an Upton as I can get a hybrid Bohemian set up to my specs for a decent price. I was also recently introduced to the Eastman basses and the jury is still out on them.

This particular thread is a great one for sharing this kind of info!!

 

[damonsmith]

A nice old ply bass, especially strung with gut, can sound amazing, if one dimensional. Since plywood doesn't vibrate as freely it makes them far more physically demanding to play. My hybrid travel bass plays nice, but my old bass nearly plays itself since it is so open.

 

[Rice]

I guess the saying of "you don't know what you don't know" is pretty relevant when it comes to purchasing a bass. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case might be) I live in an area with very minimal UB resources. I've gone from a Shen 80 laminate, to a NS 5 string EUB (due to space constraints) and 3 years ago purchased a Krutz 200 Hybrid.

Not having anything to play it "against" I'm not sure how the sound compares to anything else. I haven't had any complaints with it though as I play in a big band and a couple of jazz combo's. My chief complaint is that it has a really substantial neck that I'm not really a fan. Apparently this is common with a lot of the Chinese made basses.

I played a '37 Kay last year and fell in love with the feel of the thinner neck and dang...the sound was boomy and loud, which apparently is common of the ply's...right? I know I can get the neck on my Krutz thinned a bit and have a new setup for my playing style (95% pizz at this time), but I also have a bad case of GAS and I'm looking at either an old Kay or Am Standard, Juzek, and even considering an Upton as I can get a hybrid Bohemian set up to my specs for a decent price. I was also recently introduced to the Eastman basses and the jury is still out on them.

This particular thread is a great one for sharing this kind of info!!

+1
I have a 1937 American Standard that is ply, and it sounds amazing. The guys at Lemur commented how good it sounds considering it's age and condition (lots of scars)... I was ready to sell it thinking I needed/wanted a carved, but they talked me in to keeping it. FWIW...