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Hybrid vs Tube
- Thread starter woody357
- Start date
- Oct 18, 2012
- 6,683
- 5,538
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
Mesa WD800 - This hybrid head had the "tube amp feel" in the notes at least at the clean settings. I did not test the overdrive capabilities. The Power Amp Damping knob is the knob to really mess with. The feeling of a tube amp is right there. Blew me away!
Is there a tube power section that gets close to this hybrid combination in terms of heft of notes or physical presence? I have yet to experience it.
How about the Genz Benz Streamliner? It has a 3 tube preamp section. It is the one amp causing me severe GAS. Every one I've heard has that rich tube sound.
I had the SVT-7 Pro Thorugh a Breg NV 610 and it was nothing like a tube amp. I had it for two rehersals and it had no real low end authority at all. I had to flip it .
Well in my experience even different tube amps sound and feel different from other tube amps. So that is why you can get one person that says amp a sounds and feels tube like while someone else says it doesn't.
But again in my experience of all the different hybrid amps I have used the Genz Benz Streamliner and the new Orange Terror Bass 500 do sound and feel very tubeish.
Set the Orange master to almost max, clean switch on and use the gain for volume and wow. The D and G strings have so much heft, they literally jump out in a band mix. I am totally loving this amp right now.
And of course there is a ton of information out on the Streamliner. Without looking at it you would assume there is an actual tube amp behind you. These are excellent times for us bassists.
But again in my experience of all the different hybrid amps I have used the Genz Benz Streamliner and the new Orange Terror Bass 500 do sound and feel very tubeish.
Set the Orange master to almost max, clean switch on and use the gain for volume and wow. The D and G strings have so much heft, they literally jump out in a band mix. I am totally loving this amp right now.
And of course there is a ton of information out on the Streamliner. Without looking at it you would assume there is an actual tube amp behind you. These are excellent times for us bassists.
70's Alembic F-2B. I have a new set of 12AX7 Tung Sol's, which are really forward and pretty tight, But also have a set of English branded Westinghouse 12AX7 which have a nice bit of sag in the low mids and pretty cool grain to them on the top when pushed. I've had a few of these preamps from different eras, but this particular one is quite interesting- seems to be original stock components (been ready for a re- cap any time now, although it runs silent and without issue yet) which could be a contributing factor, but it has more drive capability and eq response than any other I've had. It can almost get a little dirty which is very un- Alembic.
I play through A Super Bassman, Ashdown Little Bastard, GB Shuttle Max 9.2, GK 400 RB, and a Tech 21 LM 300.
The one non tube amp that sounds closest to an all tube amp in heft, feel, and tone is the Tech 21 LM300.
Not a hybrid, there are no tubes in it, but man it makes me wonder how they emulated it.
It is crazy how much the LM300 sounds like a real SVT.
The one non tube amp that sounds closest to an all tube amp in heft, feel, and tone is the Tech 21 LM300.
Not a hybrid, there are no tubes in it, but man it makes me wonder how they emulated it.
It is crazy how much the LM300 sounds like a real SVT.
I've read all the remarks, and 95% of them talk about tone. Tone is not what make me gas for a tube head, its the actual physical sound and feeling you get from a tube amp. yes there are a lot of amps that can give you a good tube tone, but they miss out because they don't have that feeling. Tubes in the preamp will warm up your notes and give them a little m ore heft, but I've been told its having power tubes(6550). I'm not knocking any of these comments but only one person so far seems to truly understand what I'm talking about.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,985
- 5
- 220,763
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I think you are under-estimating the grasp of some of the TalkBass player's comments you have received.
The Mesa WD800 is the closest I’ve played.
For me, a lot of it is the feel of the attack envelope and the response once I let go. The preamp on the WD800 has a natural tube compression/overdrive that I can interact with dynamically, by varying my attack on the strings. The transition is smooth, and I don’t get the brick wall limiting effect that I’ve gotten out of other amps when I start digging in and hit the limits of its headroom.
On the power amp side the low damping setting slows the amp’s response slightly and shifts the mids a bit. The D800 has a HPF that can be used to cut unneccissary low end information and clean/tighten the response, but I’ve found that not using it slows the amp down and thickens the response (some might call this increasing the mud).
The other factor that needs to be accounted for is the cab(s). IMO, a significant part of the “tube sound” and the perception of sag is the cabinet. An old school sealed cab will sound/feel different than a modern ported/neo cab.
If you had just posted your rhetoric at the start it would have been a lot easier to get to the point. You want a saggy output section. Streamliners are the only ones I know of that do that.
The other thing you could do is re amp a little Ampeg tube amp that DI's off the power stage.
According to @JimmyM the newfangled IR preamp boxes of tricks are not quite there yet but the price is getting down into not fully laughable now.
The other thing you could do is re amp a little Ampeg tube amp that DI's off the power stage.
According to @JimmyM the newfangled IR preamp boxes of tricks are not quite there yet but the price is getting down into not fully laughable now.
My older Eden amp sure does it WT500 hot-rodded to 800-watts bridged). It has a 12ax7 in the preamp but it's in the impedance section running within some very specific parameters that add warmth without distortion. It's a very pleasing sound to my ears. Super full bottom end and what I'd call heft throughout the frequency spectrum. Any of the older hybrid Eden WT amps will do that.
If you want more of an overdrive sound to it, look at the newer Eden WTP600 & WTP900. Numbers are the watts rms on those. The WTP900 is a dual power-block amp and can be bridged to 900 watts @8 ohms. Both of those have an additional 12ax7 tube in them that is in the gain structure. You can dial in as much or as little effect as you like. You can get anything from a slight overdrive up to some pretty good dirt with it. If you're looking for that tube overdrive sound, check out the WTP's. Below are a couple of their demo videos. First one is a decent overview of the amp but not the tube gain effect:
To hear what that tube gain section does, you'll need to check this video out. I've cued it up where he starts demonstrating it.
If you want more of an overdrive sound to it, look at the newer Eden WTP600 & WTP900. Numbers are the watts rms on those. The WTP900 is a dual power-block amp and can be bridged to 900 watts @8 ohms. Both of those have an additional 12ax7 tube in them that is in the gain structure. You can dial in as much or as little effect as you like. You can get anything from a slight overdrive up to some pretty good dirt with it. If you're looking for that tube overdrive sound, check out the WTP's. Below are a couple of their demo videos. First one is a decent overview of the amp but not the tube gain effect:
To hear what that tube gain section does, you'll need to check this video out. I've cued it up where he starts demonstrating it.
I have the same amp as bucephylus and I agree that it meets or exceeds everything you imagine to be “clean tube” sound.
For my needs, I wouldn’t trade it for an SVT even if it came with a roadie to carry it around.
