Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
I cant afford lessons every week,/books vs. teachers/merged thread
- Thread starter Obsolex
- Start date
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Well I have to say now that this is absolute rubbish and very offensive to teachers!
Wow sorry Bruce! I didnt want to offend. What you have said is very true, and I genuinely respect that.
I think that what I am trying to do is rebel against the elitist few that are drip fed music theory and teaching since pre-school. Im just jelous I never learnt sooner!!
This makes absolutely no sense either - you can rebel against an oppressive regime or system - but not against people who have bothered to put in the practice time and devote their lives to music.
Or is this like - I'm too lazy to practice or learn theory, so I'm going to rebel against working hard!
A very familiar sounding "rebellion" around here!
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
This makes absolutely no sense either - you can rebel against an oppressive regime or system - but not against people who have bothered to put in the practice time and devote their lives to music.
Or is this like - I'm too lazy to practice or learn theory, so I'm going to rebel against working hard!
A very familiar sounding "rebellion" around here!
This is perhaps as far away from what I meant as is possible.
I am referring to the elitists whose daddies own their own studios and bring little Timmy up on a diet of Cheerios and composite scales whether lil' Timmy appreciates it or not. I've busted my ass learning theory so I resent what you said about rebelling against hard work.
IMHO hiring a teacher to hold your hand as you learn stuff if the lazy option. Going it alone for the thrill of discovery is the method that will bring you the most deserving respect.
With regards to this thread I believe that everybody should find their own way to learn. It might be books, it might be teachers, just don't knock the self-taught few.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,410
- 9,868
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
If you wanted to get to a club in Queens from the Bronx, and you set out to find it with no map, no train schedule, and no prior knowledge of New York, you'd certainly be "thrilled" if you found it. That's pretty similar to what you've described above. Only you'd have to be driving a bus, at rush hour. Why would anyone respect you for that?
Hiring a teacher is like hiring a guide. Someone who's been to that club, knows the way, might even know a couple back roads. He might even know a couple of other clubs along the way, that have something you never would have thought of on your own.
A good metaphor! Following it on, I imagine the equivalent of being self taught (as most people practice it, that is) would be wandering around going where you feel like, seeing what happens, and asking people along the way, and getting there eventually (or possibly not at all)
Continuing it further, my belief is that you already know the best way to get the club, but you don't know that you know. But, I realise most people don't seem to share this point of view, and not wishing to turn this into a metaphysical debate, I'll continue it no further On a different but (slightly) related topic - not wishing to hijack the thread - but do you guys tend to get the idea that many people learning the bass (or any other instrument, conceivably) have a fixation on gear, and getting new equipment to improve their sound, rather than ...practice. I tend to think that your sound is in your own hands. Literally. Put Jaco on any bass with any amp, and it's still Jaco, and still sounds like Jaco - the essence of the sound is in his hands. I've seen people before say that so-and-so's sound is down to such-and-such-a-bass, and such-and-such-an-amp - I just don't believe it's true! As evidence, on TB, Basses and Amps seem to be the two most used forums (apart from Off Topic) - considerably more so than General Instruction or Technique. It seems more people are talking about what gear to get than how to learn to play it!
Just a thought.
I disagree most strongly - it is very easy to be lazy if you have no teacher - who is going to push you - who is going to check you did the practice that you needed to - who is going to tell you need to practice more or you won't improve?
It's much easier to think - I'm doing alright, I don't need any more practice - when you have no objective voice to tell you could be doing so much better!!
I agree with your point about hard work, Bruce - and while I see the value in having a teacher to 'push you', I think you can do this without one. You know yourself how much practice you've done, and you know that you need to practice more to improve etc. It is a question of will power. And, while it can be easy to think "I'm doing alright etc. etc." without a teacher, in my experience it can be easy to be lazy *with* a teacher too! In fact when I was being taught the piano, for example, I found I did less practice, than when I wasn't! Such was the psychology of being pushed by someone else to do something.
I see you're keen on the idea of having a teacher who can push you practice etc. - but I don't think this works for everyone. It hasn't worked for me.
Well I was only saying this in the context of disagreeing with the statement :
"IMHO hiring a teacher to hold your hand as you learn stuff if the lazy option. "
I thik you can do it both ways - although my experience is that when I haven't had teachers I have tended to drift and not bother to practice.
When I know that next week, I have got to play a decent solo over a complex Jazz tune and be scrutinised by someone who knows their stuff - then I am going to practice!!
Of course there are other ways and if I'm playing in a band with people who expect a lot of me, then this also motivates me to practice.
But basically I was just stressing that a good teacher is more likely to give you a hard time, than make it easy for you!!
"IMHO hiring a teacher to hold your hand as you learn stuff if the lazy option. "
I thik you can do it both ways - although my experience is that when I haven't had teachers I have tended to drift and not bother to practice.
When I know that next week, I have got to play a decent solo over a complex Jazz tune and be scrutinised by someone who knows their stuff - then I am going to practice!!
Of course there are other ways and if I'm playing in a band with people who expect a lot of me, then this also motivates me to practice.
But basically I was just stressing that a good teacher is more likely to give you a hard time, than make it easy for you!!
BUt that's very different from :
"IMHO hiring a teacher to hold your hand as you learn stuff if the lazy option. "
Yup - every day for the last 4 years of reading TalkBass I think this and I've said it many times as well.
The overwhelming impression when reading a selection of TB threads is that most peoplr seem to think that if they buy the same bass (amp/effects etc.) as their hero, that is all they need to make them play and sound like him/her!!
I would rather spend my money on lessons/classes/workshops or summerschools any day, rather than a new bit of gear - but having said that around here - it seems I am usually in a minority of 1 !!
We can argue this 'til we're old and grey, but I'd much rather drop it and get back to teaching myself bass.
You might not have to beat me up if it keeps raining like this; i'll be flooded out of Lewes in no time 
Well, I believe everybody knows everything at a high level. Nothing you don't know, nothing you can't do. Thus, you do actually know how to get to the club, but not on the conscious level. But you do have access to the knowledge - but you don't know you that you know it, which is as good as not knowing it. But, like I said, this starts to get into the metaphysical, I don't think we wanna be getting into that in this thread
