I can't get into Jaco

[mellowinman]

dust mites

You too?

I HATE dust mites! We're like brothers, man!

 

[Altitude]

I'm possibly in the same boat as the OP. To be honest, the world has moved on. I listened to Weather Report last night for the first time in an age whilst applying Tru-Oil to a guitar body and wet-sanding a neck. I was notified that the CD had finished. Upon reflection I realised I had listened to an entire WR album without taking too much in. Sure the music is all niftily through-composed, but those synth patches and that fretless bass tone became the trademark of lift fuzak and cruiseship muzak. I'm sure it was impressive at the time, but the actual sound of WR has been done to death (and beyond). I cannot think of anybody I know who listens to them casually, it is only bassists/jazz musicians listening for academic excitement. The quality of music is great and all, but ageing badly.

Agree. The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible. It's more impressive the more you know about what he was doing - but we are in a time where people care much less about musical complexity or ability.

 

[dvh]

Agree. The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible. It's more impressive the more you know about what he was doing - but we are in a time where people care much less about musical complexity or ability.

Not entirely true. Jaco and fusion are not my thing (though I totally respect the craftsmanship) but I do, for example, find hard bop accessible and it's at least equally well crafted....

 

[Kaa]

Agree. The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible. It's more impressive the more you know about what he was doing - but we are in a time where people care much less about musical complexity or ability.

You make a good point.

Also, just to add a small observation, people my age (49) were in the heyday of the birth and ascendency of punk/punk influenced music, which was designed to be simple riff-based music.

 

[richntiff]

Count me in with the others that are decidedly 'meh' about Jaco. Then again, I have never liked really any jazz/fusion type music. Must be because I'm an uneducated troglydyte who lacks the capacity to comprehend the music.... God I HATE that attitude...

 

[Meddle]

Agree. The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible. It's more impressive the more you know about what he was doing - but we are in a time where people care much less about musical complexity or ability.

Not sure how much to read into that.

Musical complexity and ability are fine and well if it is part of good music. If they were good on their own, Soft Machine albums after Third would be loved, by way of example. Alan Holdsworth would be mentioned in the same breath as Jimmy Page, by way of example. Music that is complex for the sake of complexity has always existed. Bach is musically and mathematically complex, yet it is listenable and far more highly regarded than any similar composer of the era.

 

[Finbase]

you don't get into Jaco until Jaco gets into you. it may or may not happen, but if it does, it will be an "ah-ha" moment.

Yes, this is it! Happened to me!

 

[pnchad]

Agree. The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible. It's more impressive the more you know about what he was doing - but we are in a time where people care much less about musical complexity or ability.

dumbed down - the fact is there WAS an appreciation of higher art (don't get me wrong I can understand a punk/junk esthetic - so did JP - see Punk Jazz) but, whether it's your taste or not, using your likes & dislikes to determine quality is irrational

striving for better skills and understanding is what makes life worth living

unfortunately technology has become the enemy of excellence in too many places - mediocrity sucks

 

[tappingtrance]

I, too, have had doubts about Jaco in certain situations, based largely on NYC interactions during his downward spiral in the mid-1980's. OTOH, if you listen to his work with Joni Mitchell, particularly "Hejira,"no way you can say he did not know how to serve the songs, and in a brilliant fashion that sustained the groove while also adding a whole lot of color.

Jaco's manic tendencies make it difficult to generalize about him - he could indeed go off on a self-indulgent tangent. In evaluating Jaco, you have to consider both the good and the bad. And I'm not going to say that everyone has to love Jaco, but I'd hope that opinions are based on a decent survey of his extensive body of work.

To me Hejira is in my top 25 of albums and Jaco us brilliant in serving the song. Check out his rhythm approach on Black Crow as one innovative idea. So many stunning examples. I grew up listening and playing fusion and I will say his work with Joni is his best (+ bright size life, Barbary Coast, Havona, Donna Lee and 3views)

 

[Mesa XI]

I have to agree, I've never been into Jaco either; now Mark King.....that's another story!

Both King and Jaco took some time for me to get into them. They both had an obvious talent, but it was a matter of getting into the music. I love both of them now.

 

[john_g]

I heard Jaco years ago when I first started, but that style of music was so far away from what I was into at the time I completely disregarded it. After getting back into playing again about 6-7 years ago, I checked out alot of his stuff and it blew me away. Havona and Teen Town blew my mind. His stuff with Joni Mitchell is awesome as well. Its like others here have said, its not easily accessible music and alot of people never knew what it was like before an innovator came along and opened the doors for their favorite player.

 

[Jhengsman]

dumbed down - the fact is there WAS an appreciation of higher art (don't get me wrong I can understand a punk/junk esthetic - so did JP - see Punk Jazz) but, whether it's your taste or not, using your likes & dislikes to determine quality is irrational

striving for better skills and understanding is what makes life worth living

unfortunately technology has become the enemy of excellence in too many places - mediocrity sucks

In a musical sense isn't "quality" that which conforms to your individual taste. Do people who never listen to classical music really think Yo-Yo Ma is great or do they just accept the opinions of the fans of his genre who say he is great?

 

[JimK]

The fact is, even when it was new it took a lot of effort to listen to. Both compositionally and in terms of the instrumentation, Jaco's music was never all that accessible.

That "taking a lot of effort" was what initially drew me into both Bop/Hard Bop/Post-Bop Jazz (& later Free Jazz) & 20th Century Classical.
Same, too, for certain authors (i.e. James Joyce).
I dunno, for me, that "effort" & road to maybe understanding something esoteric & not entirely relatable to me gives me a rush.

 

[JimK]

In a musical sense isn't "quality" that which conforms to your individual taste.

Doesn't one's "taste" change...over time?
If not, we would all still be lauding Nursery Rhymes as the ****.

In this type of threads, I always say "listening is an art & skill...and needs to be tweaked/honed/practiced, yaddayadda".
And I usually get blasted by those who just like listening to what they already like-
("...why waste my valuable time listening to something I know I am not gonna like", blahblah, etc).

 

[dvh]

Doesn't one's "taste" change...over time?
If not, we would all still be lauding Nursery Rhymes as the ****.

In this type of threads, I always say "listening is an art & skill...and needs to be tweaked/honed/practiced, yaddayadda".
And I usually get blasted by those who just like listening to what they already like-
("...why waste my valuable time listening to something I know I am not gonna like", blahblah, etc).

But really, for most it is the "middle road". Music listening is a pleasure. It should not be work. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. What if it is just not thirsty?

It's the same as anything "I don't understand why everyone doesn't like ________." We all have our tastes, our time, and our relative propensity to have to work on something.

It is just as wrong to slam those who aren't into something as it is for them to slam the thing they are not into.

 

[JimK]

But really, for most it is the "middle road". Music listening is a pleasure. It should not be work.

For some, work = pleasure.

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. What if it is just not thirsty?

...and that's fine by me. I have been in many bands with guys like that. They can only play "what they know"...after a couple of decades of frustration, I learned it is better to just avoid these situations.

 

[aprod]

If you are not into Jaco try guitar.

 

[Lee Moses]

Jaco is, in my opinion, the greatest electric bassist that has ever lived, and possibly that ever will be. Some people might generally agree with that assessment, but don't really care to listen to him all that much. Some disagree with that assessment altogether. I imagine we're all capable of making our own decisions, based on our criteria of what makes a bassist "great" and what our own personal tastes are.

 

[dvh]

For some, work = pleasure.


...and that's fine by me. I have been in many bands with guys like that. They can only play "what they know"...after a couple of decades of frustration, I learned it is better to just avoid these situations.

And that is a perfectly fair decision. To each his own. My point is, they should not be criticized if that is their choice.

Who are we to decide what should make another guy happy?

 

[jnewmark]

it would be interesting to find out which players the "Jaco's not my thing" cats are into.

Duck Dunn, James Jamerson, Vedine White, Jerry Jermot, Harvey Brooks, Tim Drummond, Calvin Jones, Bob Bobbit, Bill Wyman, to name a few. I can appreciate the technical prowess of Jaco, and also how he stood the bass guitar world on it's head, but I'm more fascinated with the aforementioned players, and the supportive grooves they establish.