[I consider it CLOSED] FEA DE-CL problems: insist or resign? .......

[Jim C]

Nice playing.
Hard to be sure with headphones but the last two pieces at around 3:20 does contain some reasonably low freq. information. Not saying this is subsonic but it does go low.
Might be worth a try if you can borrow a HPF.
BTW, rolling off something like 30-50Hz. with a graphic EQ has not worked for me for a variety of reasons.
Good luck; I really like mine and I'm pretty picky.
OTOH, I haven't had any problems at about 4 or 6:1 ratio with the LED blinking.
The limiter side can get you in trouble though if you're not careful though.

 

[sunbeast]

this made me laugh out loud agreed.

I wonder what is the appropriate way to solve this “problem” then? He offered a solution that theoretically would do exactly what is wanted (basically approximating the action of a sidechain EQ to tweak the circuit). Anyone that knows about FEA knows he is already back-ordered and not in a position to offer custom mods to his pedals, but he does a lot to help people understand his designs and the designs of other electronics on this forum.
This is the first post I’ve seen critiquing the DE-CL this harshly among many users on this board, so I have to assume it’s either a faulty pedal or just a bad personal fit for the OP’s needs.

 

[sunbeast]

I'm pretty sure i have no exaggerate low end. I hate extreme lows. I always, besides listening through studio monitors, look at frequency scopes in my DAW.





I actually often do the opposite: i roll off some lows from my active basses, or from my G&L bass with the hipass pot.
I have always used quite flat sounds in the bass and in the preamps.





I tested the DE-CL with a 5strings Barnes luthiery bass, with a very open and not boomy sound (Bartolini K pickups and Bartolini TBIBT preamp, D'Addario XL strings), a 5strings Barnes fretless bass (Delano humbucker pickups and Noll preamp, D'Addario XL strings), an American Fender Precision (stock pickups, Cocco stainless steel strings), a G&L Climax (unknown strings), an Ibanez Musician fretless (split pickups with passive electronics, old D'Addario strings).

Typical examples of my bass sound (not with DE-CL):

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To eliminate the possible differences between your experiences and others, I wonder if you have tried playing the FEA through an amplifier as opposed to listening through headphones/monitors to see if you still notice this issue? Also as a fellow G&L user (I realize this is just one of the many basses you tried with your FEA), I have found my old L2000 did not play well with a lot of pedals and the passive HPF on that bass did odd things with impedance that was part of the problem

 

[mbrancalion]

To eliminate the possible differences between your experiences and others, I wonder if you have tried playing the FEA through an amplifier as opposed to listening through headphones/monitors to see if you still notice this issue?

I did not try yet, but it's unimportant: i wanted to use the DE-CL mainly for recording "ready" tracks. Listening to the recording track, and barely by watching to the track's graphic shapes shows that this C/L is made, in my opinion, in an absurd way, and i wonder that's it's so high rated....

Also as a fellow G&L user (I realize this is just one of the many basses you tried with your FEA), I have found my old L2000 did not play well with a lot of pedals and the passive HPF on that bass did odd things with impedance that was part of the problem

As i said, i tested it with many instruments, all different.

Also, i thing i did not mention: i recorded a quite loud track (pick and quite high gain in the preamp), and with the DE-CL bypassed the signal was lightly distorted in the high peaks. And i'm sure there were no overloading in all the signal chain.
I'll try to record with the same bass tomorrow (i don't have it here now), without the DE-CL in the signal path, but i suspect it may work as the EBS Multicomp, that distorts in the signal peaks even when bypassed.

 

[Bassgeer]

I have bought and sold 5 or so different and well liked high quality compressors before I found one that worked for me. They were all great, but not to my taste. I ended up with an FEA DB-CL.

It sounds like this compressor is simply not a good match to your tastes, which is unfortunate, but not sure what you are expecting the manufacturer should do about? Refund your money and pay for return shipping because you don't like the product? I think that is a pretty unrealistic expectation. Hopefully you can sell it without taking too much of a loss, as it is typically a sought after and difficult to obtain pedal.

From what you are describing it sounds like you may have been better suited buying a rackmount compressor that is tailored to studio use. Are you sending an instrument level signal to the DE-CL or a line level? Maybe that could be causing some of your issues?

 

[sunbeast]

I did not try yet, but it's unimportant: i wanted to use the DE-CL mainly for recording "ready" tracks. Listening to the recording track, and barely by watching to the track's graphic shapes shows that this C/L is made, in my opinion, in an absurd way, and i wonder that's it's so high rated....




As i said, i tested it with many instruments, all different.

Also, i thing i did not mention: i recorded a quite loud track (pick and quite high gain in the preamp), and with the DE-CL bypassed the signal was lightly distorted in the high peaks. And i'm sure there were no overloading in all the signal chain.
I'll try to record with the same bass tomorrow (i don't have it here now), without the DE-CL in the signal path, but i suspect it may work as the EBS Multicomp, that distorts in the signal peaks even when bypassed.

All the FEA pedals are “true bypass” as far as I am aware, so you shouldn’t be able to hear any distortion from the pedal when turned off.
It seems clear to me that you are already “done” with this pedal, so probably best to just sell and move on...I can join others here who have recommended the Cali76-CB pedal, and its filter control will give you adjustable control over the particular issue you take with the FEA pedal. It is a pricey pedal, but one of the better pedal compressors I’ve tried on bass. I personally only use software compression or natural tube amplifier compression for recording purposes, so can’t speak to any of these pedals used in a recording context.

 

[mbrancalion]

From what you are describing it sounds like you may have been better suited buying a rackmount compressor that is tailored to studio use. Are you sending an instrument level signal to the DE-CL or a line level? That could be causing some of your issues?

I tried everything: connecting the bass to the DE-CL and then going into the preamp. The compressor has a 1 MOhm input.
And using it in the unbalanced line level loop of the preamp. Obviously the threshold work differently.
It compresses the sound in the same way, in both solutions.

It sounds like this compressor is simply not a good match to your tastes, which is unfortunate, but not sure what you are expecting the manufacturer should do about? Refund your money and pay for return shipping because you don't like the product? I think that is a pretty unrealistic expectation.

As i said, i don't expect a return of the item to the builder, i wrote it at least twice.
I started this thread for possible troubleshooting and solutions (other than using eq before and after: who can restore in a proper way the frequencies i attenuate? And what about the noise?).
Other solutions i can try are welcome. In my daily job i'm a software engineer, and i debug code everyday.
This thread exists for a possible debugging, before i resign and sell the compressor....


Thanks for all of your replies, meanwhile.

 

[mbrancalion]

It seems clear to me that you are already “done” with this pedal, so probably best to just sell and move on...

No, i'm not still "done". I'll wait for possible other solutions and things i could try ..... something that maybe could be interesting ......
I'm not in an extreme hurry to sell it.......

 

[Wasnex]

this made me laugh out loud.

Why? Rolling off the lows before the compressor is probably the only way to manage the pre-emphasis that is built into the side chain without modding the pedal. I agree a better solution is for the OP get a compressor that he likes better, but the advice is not a joke or stupid...FEA was trying to be helpful.

I would probably ask FEA how hard it would be to take the pre-emphasis out of the side chain. It may be as simple as swapping out a few components.

 

[mbrancalion]

I would probably ask FEA how hard it would be to take the pre-emphasis out of the side chain. It may be as simple as swapping out a few components.

This is quite a smart observation, thanks for it.
I'll wrote to Frank.

I suspect, though, that the circuit is SMD .........

 

[Bassgeer]

I started this thread for possible troubleshooting and solutions (other than using eq before and after: who can restore in a proper way the frequencies i attenuate? And what about the noise?).
Other solutions i can try are welcome. In my daily job i'm a software engineer, and i debug code everyday.
This thread exists for a possible debugging, before i resign and sell the compressor....

Is it possible for you to post a picture of the settings you are using? It might help give better advice.

The issue you are describing is actually what lead me to dual band compression. I use a very aggressive, bright sounding distortion, and I really struggled to find a compressor that could compress the peaks in the highs enough without the lows getting compressed too much.

Do you have access to a crossover / mixer so you could leave the lows unaffected, and place the DE-CL on the mids/highs side of the crossover? That would probably help with the issues you are experiencing.

Best of luck! Honestly it is tough sometimes buying boutique gear because it often isn't readily available to try in person.

 

[Wasnex]

I started this thread for possible troubleshooting and solutions (other than using eq before and after: who can restore in a proper way the frequencies i attenuate? And what about the noise?).

Unfortunately I don't believe there is another solution to modify the way the key circuitry responds.

The way you would address this with a studio compressor would be to insert an EQ in the side chain. This would allow you to tune the pre-emphasis built into the key circuitry however you want, without affecting the EQ of the the signal path.

Since this pedal does not have a side chain insert, the pre/post EQ trick is sort of a work around. Basically you cut some lows before the compressor to compensate for the pre-emphasis built into the sidechain, so the compressor keys the way you want it to. Then, after the compressor you apply a mirror image boost to restore the low frequency response.

I suggest you try to duplicate the sound and performance in the review I linked in post #5. This way you can at least determine if the pedal is working normally.

 

[sunbeast]

Is it possible for you to post a picture of the settings you are using? It might help give better advice.

The issue you are describing is actually what lead me to dual band compression. I use a very aggressive, bright sounding distortion, and I really struggled to find a compressor that could compress the peaks in the highs enough without the lows getting compressed too much.

Do you have access to a crossover / mixer so you could leave the lows unaffected, and place the DE-CL on the mids/highs side of the crossover? That would probably help with the issues you are experiencing.

Best of luck! Honestly it is tough sometimes buying boutique gear because it often isn't readily available to try in person.

I feel the same way about compression ideally acting at different ratios for different bands, and I actually quite like to retain high frequency attack while compressing lows. Finding a compressor voiced just the way we want to hear, or to fit our own particular playing style can be difficult for sure.

 

[sunbeast]

This is quite a smart observation, thanks for it.
I'll wrote to Frank.

I suspect, though, that the circuit is SMD .........

I'm curious about this idea. I assume there was a thoughtful design choice when creating the voicing going into the compression circuit. Consider that an optical compressor is somehow taking a nuanced bass signal and turning it into a basic voltage that powers a lightbulb. Making that lightbulb react in a way that retains the specific funky frequency nuance of a bass player must require considerable voicing choices. Maybe @boomertech can chime in at some point regarding why he chose this specific pre-emphasis on the DE-CL. I know I've played a ton of compressors, mostly optical ones, and none have really sounded much alike at all. The worst ones for me tended to squash everything to mush (more like an effect), while the better ones like the Opti-Fet can sound organic and dynamic on their own (more amp-like in a sense) but hardly flat. Ultimately I think I prefer non-optical designs with bass, but still have the Opti-Fet around because it does some cool things with other instruments and is a cool option for bass for certain vintagey applications.

 

[Wasnex]

Ultimately I think I prefer non-optical designs with bass, but still have the Opti-Fet around because it does some cool things with other instruments and is a cool option for bass for certain vintagey applications.

It could depend upon how much compression you use. So far I have loved both the optical compressors I have tried, but I only like very light compression for my stage rig. My first optical compressor was an Aphex 1404 Punch Factory. I thought it sounded awesome but the build quality was horrible. I gave up after the 3rd one failed or arrived in a non-operational condition.

I replaced the Aphex with a Diamond CPR1...fairly similar sound, but way better build quality...The Diamond BCP1 is a better choice for bass, as it has more headroom and the frequency response extends a bit lower...I bought my CPR1 for guitar, before the BCP1 was introduced.

Based on the review I linked in post #5, the FEA DE-CL sounds like it is intended for heavier compression than I normally use for stage monitoring. I thought the pick tone with the Warmth cranked sounded pretty awesome, but I rarely play with a pick.

 

[sunbeast]

It could depend upon how much compression you use. So far I have loved both the optical compressors I have tried, but I only like very light compression for my stage rig. My first optical compressor was an Aphex 1404 Punch Factory. I thought it sounded awesome but the build quality was horrible. I gave up after the 3rd one failed or arrived in a non-operational condition.

I replaced the Aphex with a Diamond CPR1...fairly similar sound, but way better build quality...The Diamond BCP1 is a better choice for bass, as it has more headroom and the frequency response extends a bit lower...I bought my CPR1 for guitar, before the BCP1 was introduced.

Based on the review I linked in post #5, the FEA DE-CL sounds like it is intended for heavier compression than I normally use for stage monitoring. I thought the pick tone with the Warmth cranked sounded pretty awesome, but I rarely play with a pick.

I normally play through a tube head and rely on the amp for its inherent compression, but I also use smaller non-tube rigs and found compressors (or drive pedals, or a combination of both depending on what I'm going for) are often the best way to get a similar dynamic feel from non-tube rigs (or from my tube rig at the lower volumes that most venues require these days). Lately though I've also been using compression more as coloration too, which the Opti-Fet does well (it gives a particular warm clean "amp-like" tone that none of my amps can).
My first opto comp was a BBE Optostomp many years ago, which is very unsophisticated and squashy compared to something like the OptiFet and put me off on optical compression for a long time. I have wanted to try a Diamond too! I do like Opto comps with guitar and even Rhodes piano at low compression. I pretty much only use relatively low compression as well, with the exception of some super-squashy effecty parts using a Fairfield Accountant (which actually retains attack for me pretty well even at high compression).

 

[Jim C]

Am I the only one who thinks there might be some big low end:
"but the last two pieces at around 3:20 does contain some reasonably low freq. information. Not saying this is subsonic but it does go low"

I'm interested in experimenting with side chain compression as I dont have thousands of hours of experience with them.
This type of compression is the exception, nit the rule.

Up until recently, all the professional recording compressors were a signal straight through.
These comps were also used on stage in racks.
I'm talking Universal Audio, dbx, Clark Teknik, Fairchild, Neve, SSL, Emperical Labs, etc.

For me, it is hard to call freq. dependant compression a must have for stage or stduio use as it has only been built professionaly for a very few years. No one ever felt they needed it as we didn't have it.

If it does help players out that's great.
I think this comp can be made to work with the right set up.
And even easier in the studio where you can fine tune the settings for each performance.

 

[sunbeast]

Am I the only one who thinks there might be some big low end:
"but the last two pieces at around 3:20 does contain some reasonably low freq. information. Not saying this is subsonic but it does go low"

I'm interested in experimenting with side chain compression as I dont have thousands of hours of experience with them.
This type of compression is the exception, nit the rule.

Up until recently, all the professional recording compressors were a signal straight through.
These comps were also used on stage in racks.
I'm talking Universal Audio, dbx, Clark Teknik, Fairchild, Neve, SSL, Emperical Labs, etc.

For me, it is hard to call freq. dependant compression a must have for stage or stduio use as it has only been built professionaly for a very few years. No one ever felt they needed it as we didn't have it.

If it does help players out that's great.
I think this comp can be made to work with the right set up.
And even easier in the studio where you can fine tune the settings for each performance.

I hear the part in the 2nd song you are referencing. I'm beginning to think the fretless attack envelope might be another potential thing to look at as to why the OP's experience doesn't seem to match many others.
I haven't played through all of those compressors, but have tried a few (UA, a few different DBX, Neve, probably more in studios) and used software emulation of lots of them and even a compression novice like myself can hear a difference. There is nothing inherently linear about the way any analog comp works on a dynamic set of frequencies and nuances- some clamp down stronger on different frequencies, some seem to inherently emphasize certain frequencies in the output signal. All these things can be (and are) adjusted with internal design choices. Now we have many more options available to expand user-voicing of compression, so why not utilize them?

 

[Wasnex]

Am I the only one who thinks there might be some big low end:

This was one of my my first thoughts as well...but not something I would expect with a passive bass plugged straight into the compressor.

 

[MattZilla]

Why?

because, if the circuit was intentionally designed to leave dynamics in the guitar and higher frequencies alone and kill them in the low-mid and bass frequencies, then the advice is a stupid joke in lieu of straightforward response like "yeah, I designed it for a different application than that for which you're trying to use it. Particularly if you're doing studio work, don't sell it- it's great for other instruments, but it's just not going to serve you well as a bass compressor for the studio as other compressors."