I Don't Remember Getting Gigs Being This Tough

[Richland123]

We have some dedicated fans who will drive 50 or 60 miles each way to see us and pay to get in and we greatly appreciate them but we cannot get our own friends and relatives to drive 5 minutes to see us. Then, if see some of our "friends", they act like we should get them into shows for free just "because they know us". They would rather sit at home and watch TV than drive a few minutes to support us. And, all of these people do not have young children and they have money to spend. Yet, they have no problem going to the movies and paying $10 each for a ticket plus drinks and snacks and blow $40 for a 2 hour movie.

 

[ElMon]

Just played a gig at my favorite OKC spot, Bel Isle Brewery. It had been a while since my band Equilibrium had played, and for that occasion and a few others (friend's birthday, drummer's anniversary) we had over 150 people there at 5 bucks a head. After the band tab and tipping the bartenders I walked away with $140. Not bad for the door.

The thing that worked here is that we made this an event by spreading the word and working our network of fans, and that people hadn't seen us in a while. Sometimes I think we shoot ourselves in the foot in our pursuit to play more and more in-town gigs for the sake of playing and of course money. Its easier for us all to play in town right now (families/dayjobs), but if people know that they can see you at least 4 times a month, then you disperse your crowd. Its then harder to bring a big crowd at any one spot, thus you lose pay. Not to mention the fact that people just get tired of you if they can see you every week.

I'm thinking of diversifying on a few fronts. For one, my band needs to play more out of town. That way the gig load stays the same without oversaturating the local market. The other thing is that I need to start a straight up rock/cover band. I love playing original music in a funk/jazz vein, but let's face it, people want to shake their butts to songs they know, and they'll pay you mightily for it around here if you do it well

 

[Richland123]

My band deliberately plays mostly away from our hometown to limit regular exposure so that our appearances are more special events but that does not entice our closest friends to come and support us locally. Then, they will complain that we are always out of town and I tell them that when we do play locally, they don't come out anyway, even if it is a free festival show.

We did a 4 hour Valentine's Day dance as a fundraiser for our local fire hall. They paid us nicely and it supported our local fire company. The deal was $12 a ticket for 4 hours of music and all of the beer, soda, and snacks included for one low price. Even though we had about 400 people show up, I still had friends who live less than 5 minutes away not come and stayed home to watch TV and I even had people complain about spending $12 a person for all of that. Go figure.

 

[mike.b]

we've just started and as of yet don't have a big following so its even harder to get gigs.
until the recession disapears up its own behind and they allow smoking in pubs/bars and clubs again(seen any flying pigs)filling these places will very difficult and bands will suffer.just gotta go with the flow till it all changes again.

 

[txbasschik]

Just played a gig at my favorite OKC spot, Bel Isle Brewery. It had been a while since my band Equilibrium had played, and for that occasion and a few others (friend's birthday, drummer's anniversary) we had over 150 people there at 5 bucks a head. After the band tab and tipping the bartenders I walked away with $140. Not bad for the door.

The thing that worked here is that we made this an event by spreading the word and working our network of fans, and that people hadn't seen us in a while. Sometimes I think we shoot ourselves in the foot in our pursuit to play more and more in-town gigs for the sake of playing and of course money. Its easier for us all to play in town right now (families/dayjobs), but if people know that they can see you at least 4 times a month, then you disperse your crowd. Its then harder to bring a big crowd at any one spot, thus you lose pay. Not to mention the fact that people just get tired of you if they can see you every week.

I'm thinking of diversifying on a few fronts. For one, my band needs to play more out of town. That way the gig load stays the same without oversaturating the local market. The other thing is that I need to start a straight up rock/cover band. I love playing original music in a funk/jazz vein, but let's face it, people want to shake their butts to songs they know, and they'll pay you mightily for it around here if you do it well

Excellent strategy. Didn't Barnum say, "Leave 'em wanting more"? I try never to book two gigs in our regular stomping grounds closer than six weeks apart. Unless those bars have very distinct crowds, which some do, so you can play them close together...you won't get the same people, anyway.

Diversification is the way to go. We are all having to do it, too. I'm doing two dinstinctly different rock projects, and am talking with a friend about getting up a country band. Man, you can pay some bills with country.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

I hear ya there!! I think I said this earlier in this thread, but we've literally played within walking distance of friends' houses, and they simply never show up. I swear people and "friends" go out of their way to make up excuses to NOT support their musician friends. Toward the end (I was in an acoustic duo for a time) we actually stopped telling friends that we were playing because we knew beyond a doubt that they would NEVER show up. Like you say, they always found time to do other things, but not come to a show. Either they don't realize how much bands need moral support, or they're not great friends. I suspect both.

Yeah...They like to use the kids as an excuse, too. The last time I invited some of "those friends" to a show, and they played the "kid" card, I said, "Oh. Well, what do you do with them when you go to CannedLineDancing Depot?"

The woman looked like a large mouth bass, pulled into the boat and gasping for air.

Ayup.

Cherie

 

[MatticusMania]

I've had nothing but good experiences at Old Towne Pub. Our lead guitar player has played there probably 100 times over the years and has always had a blast in that little room. Something about those old bricks gets the mojo workin'. We're playing there again this coming Wednesday as part of the Rose City Rock Music Fest.

Ive had mostly good experiences there as well, aside from the last time I was there. Even still, the show went well, and without a hitch, had a lot of friends show up and everything, it was some of the personnel and their associates that began the problems.

 

[ElMon]

Excellent strategy. Didn't Barnum say, "Leave 'em wanting more"? I try never to book two gigs in our regular stomping grounds closer than six weeks apart. Unless those bars have very distinct crowds, which some do, so you can play them close together...you won't get the same people, anyway.

Diversification is the way to go. We are all having to do it, too. I'm doing two dinstinctly different rock projects, and am talking with a friend about getting up a country band. Man, you can pay some bills with country.

Cherie

+1 on Country being good for the wallet. Sometimes it seems that you get paid MORE for playing LESS notes. Singer-Songwriter/Country gigs= $$$ where most of the hi-octane, fretboard ripping fusion gigs = $. IME of course.

 

[denhou1974]

$150 for original music is nothing to complain about. I would never join an [original] band with the expectation of making money. IME cover charges limit your audiences. Plus, I never felt right about charging my friends/family to come watch me play music in a band. They spend $7-$12 each to get in the venue and I leave with $10 or so? I'd rather play for free. Or play covers.

 

[Korladis]

$150 for original music is nothing to complain about. I would never join an [original] band with the expectation of making money. IME cover charges limit your audiences. Plus, I never felt right about charging my friends/family to come watch me play music in a band. They spend $7-$12 each to get in the venue and I leave with $10 or so? I'd rather play for free. Or play covers.

Why are cover charges bad? You go to a lot of free concerts? Almost every concert I've been to costs money to get in, either beforehand by buying a ticket, or at the door (usually the latter costs more, for whatever reason).

I would never expect to see a band for free.

 

[Richland123]

What gets me is that people expect to see live bands for free and complain about paying a $2, $3, or $4 cover charge. They don't go to the movies or a sporting event and expect to get in for free. It costs $9 or $10 for a movie. It even costs money to go see a high school football or basketball game.

 

[Korladis]

What gets me is that people expect to see live bands for free and complain about paying a $2, $3, or $4 cover charge. They don't go to the movies or a sporting event and expect to get in for free. It costs $9 or $10 for a movie. It even costs money to go see a high school football or basketball game.

I don't know anyone who expects a concert for free. $5 is the cheapest show I've ever been to. $8-$12 is more normal for local gigs, and more like $20 for a band with more widespread a following.

 

[totallyfrozen]

Oh, man! This whole thread ticks me off ALOT!!
Where do I start?!

Let me just throw ONE at you. It's hard enough to get a gig:

But how about when everybody in the band is either in the military or is a veteran and you play at a VFW hall for an agreed amount of money. How about if you agree to play there for the whole MONTH (weekends only) so you turn down offers at other clubs that month. How about if your band is one of the better bands in the city and you usually get $25/hour for each guy per gig. How about if you offer the VFW hall a HUGE discount because you're all service vets and...after all..it's the VFW hall. Then how about the VFW hall manager tries to stiff you AFTER you've played the whole weekend.
He gives you some lame excuse and pays you late. But, hey, it's the war veterans club, right? So you cut them some slack and say "bad boy! don't do that again! but we'll come back next weekend if you behave!"
So the next weekend you show up, set up, play ONE night (of the weekend) and get another lame excuse and NO money! So you pack up and leave! Then several days later...no money!
We had to come in DURING THE DAY and SIT at the bar and give the bartender the evil eye until she finally got the bar manager and told him, "pay these guys so they'll leave!"
He finally paid and and even tried to short us to our faces while we were sitting there counting it!

I'm proud of my military service but that guy was a douche bag!
Clubs think they are doing you some kind of favor when they "let you" play. They forget that people LIKE to hear live music!
Seriously, show of hands of who would rather hear drunken karaoke than a good band?

Yeah, I hear nothing but chirping crickets...that's what I expected.

 

[totallyfrozen]

What gets me is that people expect to see live bands for free and complain about paying a $2, $3, or $4 cover charge. They don't go to the movies or a sporting event and expect to get in for free. It costs $9 or $10 for a movie. It even costs money to go see a high school football or basketball game.

I agree! In addition to sucking on the bass, I also suck as an actor in the city's community theater company. The theater charges $12/ticket to see the shows...and the whole thing is volunteer. The cast & crew get NO money at all.
I've worked (volunteer) the concession stand there where the theater charges $2 for a bag of M&M's! I've never heard anyone gasp or balk at the prices of admission and/or concessions. No one seems to expect anything less.
Why is it different for a musical performance?
It's not and people shouldn't expect it to be.

 

[txbasschik]

+1 on Country being good for the wallet. Sometimes it seems that you get paid MORE for playing LESS notes. Singer-Songwriter/Country gigs= $$$ where most of the hi-octane, fretboard ripping fusion gigs = $. IME of course.

A steel player I jam with sometimes asked me last week why I don't go make $100 playing country, in between rock gigs. He's a very good, seasoned player, and likes me to play with him.

So I asked my neighbor that question, she who grew up in her daddy's band...Southern Comfort. (She's Don's daughter.)

So...we're working something up. There's all manner of bad rumblings in my main band, anyway. I'm rather depressed about it. Evidently, I'm just a cover hack, not a "real" professional. :scowl:

That, and our drummer fell off a roof, while working, and hurt himself. So, he's out for a while, at least.

But that's another thread.

Anyhow...I no longer see any reason not to go out with my rock cover project, which I am already, and make a country one, too. May as well get paid, if I don't get to record the originals. Ayup. May as well get paid.

Cherie

 

[ElMon]

A steel player I jam with sometimes asked me last week why I don't go make $100 playing country, in between rock gigs. He's a very good, seasoned player, and likes me to play with him.

So I asked my neighbor that question, she who grew up in her daddy's band...Southern Comfort. (She's Don's daughter.)

So...we're working something up. There's all manner of bad rumblings in my main band, anyway. I'm rather depressed about it. Evidently, I'm just a cover hack, not a "real" professional. :scowl:

That, and our drummer fell off a roof, while working, and hurt himself. So, he's out for a while, at least.

But that's another thread.

Anyhow...I no longer see any reason not to go out with my rock cover project, which I am already, and make a country one, too. May as well get paid, if I don't get to record the originals. Ayup. May as well get paid.

Cherie

Good luck with that. Been there a few times. I always remind myself that any thing I do with a bass strapped on, whether it be country or fusion, is STILL better than any other 'work' I've done or will ever do. If you consistently do what's required for the gig with passion and precision, even if that's playing whole and half note root lines all night, the gig's will find you. Then again, I've been fortunate to meet a lot of musicians who understand this approach and leave the egos out of it. Who knows if I"d find the same thing somewhere else?

 

[txbasschik]

Good luck with that. Been there a few times. I always remind myself that any thing I do with a bass strapped on, whether it be country or fusion, is STILL better than any other 'work' I've done or will ever do. If you consistently do what's required for the gig with passion and precision, even if that's playing whole and half note root lines all night, the gig's will find you. Then again, I've been fortunate to meet a lot of musicians who understand this approach and leave the egos out of it. Who knows if I"d find the same thing somewhere else?

You are, of course, utterly correct!

Here lately, I am finding myself surrounded by musicians whom I've known a while, worked with before without drama, and with whom I share mutual respect.

And who want to work with me.

So...Time To Make The Donuts.

Cherie

 

[denhou1974]

Why are cover charges bad? You go to a lot of free concerts? Almost every concert I've been to costs money to get in, either beforehand by buying a ticket, or at the door (usually the latter costs more, for whatever reason).

I would never expect to see a band for free.

My reasons:

1. You're limiting your audience. How many people walk away because they don't want to pay to hear a band (any band)? Plenty. I've seen it with my own eyes. Those people are potential fans of your band. I'd rather have them come in for free, hear my band, and possibly buy a CD rather than have them pay at the door.

2. I'm not sure that I would compare a concert to an original band playing at a club/bar. My goal [in original bands] was exposure. Not money. Charging at the door isn't going to help your band.

3. I never felt right about charging my friends/family to see my band play. Contrary to a previous post, no bars/clubs in this town charge $2-$4. They pay $8-$20 each at the door and I leave with $40? Naaa, I'd rather pay for free or join a cover band.

That being said, I always tip the band or buy merchandise even if they aren't great. Cover, original, or street musician.

... but that's just my opinion based on my experience in my hometown. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Korladis]

My reasons:

1. You're limiting your audience. How many people walk away because they don't want to pay to hear a band (any band)? Plenty. I've seen it with my own eyes. Those people are potential fans of your band. I'd rather have them come in for free, hear my band, and possibly buy a CD rather than have them pay at the door.

Venues that book metal bands charge. The understanding walking in is that the main event is the music.

2. I'm not sure that I would compare a concert to an original band playing at a club/bar. My goal [in original bands] was exposure. Not money. Charging at the door isn't going to help your band.

Most concerts I've been to are at clubs of some kind. Arena shows are quite rare. Clubs of course vary in size from as small as Rooster's Roadhouse or the Oakland Metro to as large as the Fillmore. I've seen both local and much more well known bands even at the small ones. It is a concert, the bands aren't there to entertain drunks at a bar.

3. I never felt right about charging my friends/family to see my band play. Contrary to a previous post, no bars/clubs in this town charge $2-$4. They pay $8-$20 each at the door and I leave with $40? Naaa, I'd rather pay for free or join a cover band.

They have guest lists. Most of my family wouldn't go to shows in that scene anyway. I don't think $8 is so unreasonable. A movie costs $10, after all.

That being said, I always tip the band or buy merchandise even if they aren't great. Cover, original, or street musician.

... but that's just my opinion based on my experience in my hometown. Your mileage may vary.

Perhaps it's just that I live in a vastly different area from you.

I only buy stuff from a band if I like them. I'm not going to support every crappy metalcore band I see opening. That would get very expensive, to buy stuff from every band, considering there are usually 3-5 bands at a show.

 

[totallyfrozen]

if you're getting paid $150 per gig, i would start being quiet....

most venues here refuse guarentees and only pay you by people you bring. As the CEO of a venue, i agree with this. it takes initiative for a band to get enough people there (building their fanbase big enough) to get what they want to get paid.


I actuallly had a show last night. $7 cover. 7 bands. the highest paid band was $39. two bands got paid $3.00.

consider yourself lucky if
a) you are getting gigs with guarentees
and B) guarentees of $150.


Sorry to be the downcast one, but its legit truth.

You're taking advantage of the bands and musicians...plain and simple.

"Initiative"?! What do you think it takes to learn an instrument, put together a band of people with similar skill level and interest and learn (or even WRITE) many songs together...then to put together a show and have the energy and balls to get up there and do that show?
All you have to do is sell drinks and provide security and some AC electrical power? Or if you're a "good" club owner/manager you also provide some good lights and a PA system.

A band's personal "fan base" should NOT be a club's criterion for paying the band a certain rate. The fan base is there for the band; not the club. They are the ones buying T-shirts and CD's and bragging about the band to their friends and driving all the way to YOUR club to see the band. Having the bands fan base show up at YOUR club and pay for drinks to see THEIR band is doing YOU A FAVOR. Not the other way around. If the club is cool enough and has taken the "initiative" to EARN a good reputation, then the club will have it's OWN fan base. We have a couple places like that here, and with regard to THOSE places, the bands look forward to playing there because those clubs are known for booking good bands. But those clubs also book FAMOUS bands with radio airplay and the clubs MUST sign a contract. There's none of this "$3 to the band guy" monkey business at the reputable clubs here.

Now, granted, Alaska has a higher economy than most states; but we charged $25/hour for each band member...with NO fan base guarantee (that's $250/man for one night. We had a 4 piece group). So break out the strong box and get out that $1,000/night! That was our deal...period. And the clubs paid it because we had a good CD. Did we have fans show? Sure! But we didn't promise that to the club. We did wedding receptions the same way...and we weren't expected to bring our FAN BASE to a wedding reception either. We had a contract that the clubs had to sign first--and they did. If musicians everywhere did this, the clubs would have to oblige sooner or later because the public can only stand so much of drunken karaoke night and/or DJ Wiggity Wack's "dope ass remixes".

When you're charging $5- $7 for a beer (more for mixed drinks)--not to mention your $7 cover charge--and one of the band's guys gets paid $3, you should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously. That club paid one band's guys LESS THAN ONE cover charge?! What the heck is wrong with people?! That's just greedy and unfair. How cool and popular would your club be if NO bands EVER played there?
It would end up being nothing more than a jukebox honky tonk.
Club owners/managers prey on the hope and desperation of up & coming bands...some of them struggling with poverty and poor equipment. The clubs act like they are doing the bands a favor. Well, treating them like that isn't doing them any more of a favor that a pimp does for a prostitute. It's a clear case of taking an unnecessary advantage of someone because you see they have a desire for something that you COULD provide without really taking a loss.
And the part that burns my shorts the most about the whole club mentality is that we KNOW that on the other nights you're paying DJ Scratch 'n' Sniff MORE than you're paying an entire band of 4 guys!

On a side note, your confession tells me that you're not booking good talent either. Confident musicians with a fan base wouldn't sit for $3. I wouldn't even leave my house for $3. I don't know. Maybe your particular venue is targeted toward the teenage musicians or something. I can't imagine a grown man (or woman) going through all of what's involved in putting on a good show for $3. That's just the cost of a 12oz mocha. You've paid more for Girl Scout Cookies than you paid those guys.
That's just shameful, man.