I Don't Remember Getting Gigs Being This Tough

[ElMon]

In my 20+ years of being in bands and trying to hunt down gigs, I've found that there is only ONE thing that gives you a REAL edge with a club owner. It's a REFERRAL from somebody he/she TRUSTS! That's it. If you have a great press kit...so what...who the hell are you? But if the drummer from one of that club owners favorite (and money making) bands says "Hey. You should really check out (enter your band name here). Those guys are GREAT! Maybe we could have them open for us one night. Just play a few songs with our backline." Then you're in. You may not even have to do the opening gig. So make friends with some guys who are regulars in your area. Get them to come to a practice and see you for a few minutes. Maybe even offer them a few buck for their troubles. It'll be worth it in the long run. BTW One of my best friends (and favorite drummers) is from up that way. Steve O'Grady...you know him? Anyway...best of luck to you!!!!

+1. Can't tell you how valuable this attitude has been to me for getting gigs. NETWORKING= $$$$. I make a point to befriend every talented musician/band that I come across. Especially drummers and other bassists. Gotten a lot of top-dollar gigs from those contacts over the years.

Also, look at it this way. If as a band you show respect to another group that's playing the places you want to play, say by offering to open for them (for free) and coming to their shows religiously, then you'll be the first group to come to mind when they start going out of town to gig, and the clubowners in your town will be eager to go with a new band that is recommended by another proven commodity. I"ve seen it work many a time. In general, if you stay tight with the professionals in your area, and ignore the 'posers' of all sorts, then things have a way of working out in your favor.

 

[bassbully]

In my neck of the woods things are bad. Most bars are only booking coverbands and paying little. The number of coverbands far out weigh the amount of bars still open that book music over say DJs etc. If you send out or drop off press kits good luck you might get a look but little money $200-250 for 3-4 hours sets. If you sniff they say "next" and the next band takes your place. I dread those days.

I now am in an originals band. It is bittersweet. I have had fair luck in getting gigs so far and have my band booked thru Sept. The problem is pay (Low) We do a couple of coffee houses and one does pay us as well as we do well on tips. At another coffee house we did ok on tips so thats not true what the poster said about all Ohio Coffee shop gigs Being original and wanting to promote our sound and CD over making money gives us a chance to do this stress free and enjoy it more than say getting bucks in the cover band market. We are getting paying gigs but not big money and we are Ok with that. The thing i love is the original music venues and crowd are tight and support each other the coverbands market...please!

 

[jdthecrazy]

I agree with much said here.

I play with my dad and other older (older than me anyway) guys in a cover band. We do older jazz, blues, rock and country. The guys are in their late 50's to early 60's and they are always telling me that I was born 30 years too late.

I remember being a kid in the 80's and dad was always gigging. He says that the 60's and 70's were even better. All the other guys agree and have many stories to share. Dad said that many house payments and lots of groceries were payed for due to playing music.

We're a good band, but we have a hard time getting gigs more than a few times a month. The guys know a lot of people and when we play the pay isn't bad, but there just is not much demand for live music around. I guess club owners would rather deal with DJ's

 

[Intune]

At least get the door. ALL of the door. A band asked us to play with them at a local bar and when we asked about pay... "Well, we get the door but the bar takes 50% and we split the rest."

"That's cool, do we get 10% of the bar receipts for that night?"

 

[BassScum]

if you're getting paid $150 per gig, i would start being quiet....

most venues here refuse guarentees and only pay you by people you bring. As the CEO of a venue, i agree with this. it takes initiative for a band to get enough people there (building their fanbase big enough) to get what they want to get paid.


I actuallly had a show last night. $7 cover. 7 bands. the highest paid band was $39. two bands got paid $3.00.

consider yourself lucky if
a) you are getting gigs with guarentees
and B) guarentees of $150.


Sorry to be the downcast one, but its legit truth.

Wouldn't CEO of a venue = bar manager?

Original acts have to put up with a lot more bs then a cover band. Our band (cover band) gets the pre arranged amount (which is reasonable) plus tab. If that can't be agreed upon we simply don't play there. As mentioned before, if playing every weekend you can't be expected to bring a crowd with you every night as your friends can't be expected to come out every weekend. The bar/club has to build a reputation and atmosphere on its own and the entertainment will keep them there.

I've also noticed some venues in my area going back and forth on original music for a few months,year etc. then changing back to cover music. That makes it hard to establish a loyal customer base. One down side to all original venues is it mostly attracts younger crowds with less money to spend and therefore fewer drinks sold.

 

[rokkitt]

does the CEO of the venue book the bands, or own the place or both?

never heard that one, not being difficult, please xplain more what the CEO of the venue does and what he can do for me and the band....

and, more important, what the band and I can do for him....

big al

 

[dystopiate]

I can only speak for original music, but here are some harsh realities that I think are getting glazed over:

Most live music venue owners/managers/promoters are not in it for the money (stay with me here). Original live music is a great way to put your business in jeapardy, NOT a great way to make money. I've considered opening a bar with live music and have run through a hundred best-case-senario numbers and they all suck -- hell, I'd be better off as a band member than a startup owner! These owners are typically people who have sunk a couple hundred thousand dollars and quit their day-jobs to involve themselves in a venture that has limited prospect of return. They're enthusiasts who often can't understand why bands can't understand that they're providing a space and backline; they just want a little return on their dream.

If they're not in it for the money, why are they: cheap, jerks, taking all my gig money, etc? Because it's the only way to keep the venue open and they sit through dozens of horrible bands with horrible "rockstar" attitudes each week.

Why don't they advertise more? Put some ads on the radio, cover an area with fliers, etc? Because that costs money and carries no return in most markets. Their business is filled with getting better rates from distributers, dealing with inspectors, putting new drivers in the cab someone blew out last night, etc. Your business is the band. If you don't do your own promotion, that's like the owner not cleaning up, stocking the bar, fixing the equipment, etc.

Why don't they return my phone calls? Because you're one of 100 bands that dropped something off that week and they think that: you suck, won't draw, aren't right for their venue, haven't heard of you, never listened to it because the other 99 jewelcases looked better, don't book bands with physical press kits and you never bothered to find that out, go on referal only, heard that you complain about how they run their business, etc.

To be fair, I get that some clubs are run fools who don't know how run a business (any business), and expect bands to eat their $#!% and make them money. To be fair, I've never played or heard of a venue like that that remained open wihtin 5 years of running their business in such a way (of course, a lot of them foolishly signed 5 yr leases and screwed themselves the day they put ink to paper).

My band makes money most nights. We generally stay in the black even with gas, hotels, downtime, etc. We're not going to get rich as an unsigned act playing bars and clubs, so we're not trying to. We also don't have much trouble getting guarantees because: we keep our rates reasonable, we understand that some nights pay better than others, some venues pay better than others, that there's more value in a relationship with the club than and extra $25-50 per member, do lots of cost-effective web-based promotion, have built a resume that opens doors, and are good to the owners. As a side note, the best pay we get is in our hometown at a small bar with no guarantee: we get a % of the door & 0.00% of the bar. Every town has a few bands like this and they are competing for the better slots and venues.

Is it fair? Who promised anyone fair? Being a band is like being a sales person: it's commission based and those who survive stay ahead of the curve, do their own marketing, understand building/retaining relationships, see the long game, and those at the top make a handsome sum and everyone else is struggling or quitting.

Edit: I read that back and it sounds horribly jaded, but I do believe that that's how it really is. It's a tough road to just get your head above water. It's important that you love the experience of being in a band if that's what you're going to do.

 

[becker4567]

In the mid 70's, I was in a punk band in North San Diego County, which was full of country bars...try getting a gig in one of those and survive it!

 

[Rattman]

After another ridiculous conversation with yet another club owner who told me his also ridiculous pay policy for the bands (some elaborate system where the band was offered a small percentage of the bar unless the bar-take was less than $1,000 in 4 hours in which case, the money would be deducted from the band's take or some such thing) The club owner thought this was more than fair. And he is just representative of the others we have encountered in the past few years.

I said to the owner, 'your job is to get the crowd there, our job is to keep them there'.

He didn't get it, we didn't play.

Great!! ha ha ha!! I would have resolved that situation in exactly the same way. You can only bend backwards just far, then you just have to SNAP back to reality.... What a crummy "deal" that owner was offering.

 

[scottbass]

Here's my perspective. I played in cover bands in the mid 70's thru mid 80's, took 15 years off to raise kids, advance my career, etc., then started playing again about 10 years ago.

Then: less severe DUI laws, lots of baby boomers in their "clubbing years", smoking permitted everywhere, lots of bars with live music. We played the same place 3 nights a week - Thursday, Friday & Saturday. We played 4 to 6 different venues, so we played each place 9 to 12 weekends per year. Most places had no cover on Thursday, and $2 cover on Friday and Saturday. Drink prices were usually increased to $2 when the band was playing. The bars promoted heavily. We would put less than 100 people in the place on Thursdays, but a lot of them would come back on Friday and/or Saturday and bring more friends with them, so there would be maybe 200 people there each of those nights. We were paid about $100 per musician per night. We played about 150 nights per year. We each earned about $15,000 per year from playing. In those times, that was more than enough money to support yourself. If you had a day job, you were essentially doubling your income.

Now: stricter DUI laws, no smoking in bars here in MN, fewer people go out due to both changing demographics and the bad economic conditions. There are overall fewer bars, and fewer of them have live music. The vast majority only have live bands one night a week. Very few bars do any kind of advance promotion other than hanging the posters we give them. Very few places draw more than 100 customers on the one night they have live music - usually Saturday night. We are lucky to book paying gigs once every 2 weeks, so we play about 25 nights per year. Fewer places seem to charge cover, but if they do they usually charge $5. Drinks are now $4 to $5 (or more). And we still get paid about $100 per musician per night. I earn about $2,500 per year from playing. I describe it as "a self-supporting hobby."

 

[Hutch1]

It appears that the middle of nowhere seems to be not a bad spot for bands... I've honestly never had a problem finding gigs for my band in the 2 years we've been doing shows. We normally get the door, but we draw a big enough crowd that we make more from the $5 cover (pretty much standard at most places in town) than anyone would pay us. We usually make $400-$600 a night which means $80-$120 per member. A hell of a lot better than what I make flipping burgers.

Indeed, Small Town America does seem to pay better in many cases. My brother is actually in a small town not far from Wasted Bassist, and he is amazed when I tell him of my gig-seeking woes here in the Twin Cities, the pay arrangements, etc. And he is living proof that networking is indeed a major key to the issue, if in fact it is not THE key.

My brother knows everybody in his small town, and he has been in several blues bands through the years. He told me that he couldn't remember the last time he had to look for a gig--they've always come to him! "Hey, can your band play this festival?" "Would you be able to play at our club this night?" and so forth. And he always gets paid, and he gets paid decent money. Even in the rare instances where he's done a coffee shop gig, he gets paid. Very little chance of that in my neck of the woods. Here everybody is a little fish in a big pond.

GearHeadBassMan said, "One venue owner said he had $10 total to pay 5 bands . . ." Do these owners lack the basic cognitive ability to realize how much of an insult this is? (Would they leave a one-cent tip for a waitress?) Much better to say, "I'm really sorry, guys, but unfortunately I'm unable to pay any of you this evening."

I can see bringing your crowd with you to a point. But if a venue has no regular customers, be they walk-ins, repeat customers, etc., I don't see how they can stay in business. I've played places where we were unable to bring our friends (as I said in a previous post, we are grown-ups, we don't have thousands of friends, and those we do have live very busy lives and have families), and since we didn't bring any friends, the bar was literally empty. In many cases the reason a band plays a tiny hole-in-the-wall little-to-no pay venue is precisely because they haven't yet built up a sizeable fan base and or a respectable amount of popularity. So the fact that this type of club expects this type of band to bring in fan upon fan upon fan upon fan is a bit unrealistic.

I do agree also that when one band plays for nothing, the next band is going to find it that much more difficult to get paid. But I don't know that that can be solved. There will always be folks who are willing to play for free or for very little, and some club owners--particularly those who are not musically astute--will see no difference between that band and the band who follows them and wants $600 for the night.

This is a good thread; I'm enjoying reading about everybody else's misery! (Seriously, isn't it nice to know that we're not alone?)

 

[droskobass]

Ok huge post here but I couldn't stop my fingers:

Let me tell you about gigging in Montreal...

there are basically at least ten levels of gigs available in town from busking to playing the Bell center (50,000 seat Hockey arena)

and to earn money you have to do your homework.

Busking: In the Metro no problem, get to the designated areas early and put your name on the little list behind the blue signs, then show up for your hour and walk away with about 100 bucks.

Outside: you need a permit (or a good lookout) otherwise you'll be fined heavily ( I have friends who have do jail time for not paying fines for busking w/o a permit )

Next level: Acoustic solo or duo (acoustic guit and bass) happy hour gigs) these pay well and all you need is a guitar (or accoustic bass) and a very small amp with 3 inputs. In fact the quieter you play the more you can charge and the more tips you'll get. you book these gigs by offering to do one set for free and if the owner doesn't like it you pack up and leave after 45minutes never to return, or the next two sets will cost him (rates at your discretion but could be anywhere from 50 each per set to $450/ gig for two people). the catch, to play on a "terrace" (outside balcony the venue needs to have the appropriate permit)

Next step Bar gigs. These are 3 setters, covers only (if you're playing originals DON'T tell the manager and he'll never know anyway) we do up to 10 originals a night and jam out on lots of covers.. these pay 300-550 a night and you get about 9 pints of beer for free for the band too. You have to hound to get a gig and you have to treat the bar manager and staff well (tip the waitress for your free beer) you have to know how to do your own sound, you have to work the mic so that the audience is entertained and you can't play too loud. you have to start the sets on time (10:30-11:15, 11:45-12:30, and 1:15 to 2:15/2:30 (yes the third set is a marathon bars close at 3am here)

Original gigs should be [played in SOCAN registered venues, and you should open for other bands and take ZERO from the door. as long as the show is advertised and your originals are registered with SOCAN (BMI or ASCAP in the US) you will get paid for submitting the set list to SOCAN (after all, the venue pays an annual feel to be a venue and that fee is to cover artist royalties) we are artists after all so that's how we get paid. as for the door, talk to the promoter. if you have a track record you'll have weight. that's where your Myspace and Itunes downloads count. invite everyone from facebook to every gig and you'll get consistently growing turnout. get email addresses at the show and email everyone. etc...

Festivals, apply wait repeat. we have about 50 festivals in Quebec per year for every kind of music. send your demo / press kit to every booking agent in the city and call them weekly and hang out with them etc... festivals pay well AND you get SOCAN revenue...you're laughing.

Private parties, weddings corporate events: Make a video demo, get hot chicks in the band, learn 70-100 songs rake in $4,300-$8,000 a night. seriously. there are hundreds of these gigs going on in the huge hotel banquet rooms across the city.

Overseas gigs (Asia Middle east Atlantic city) same as above but the pay is closer to 450-600 per member per week all expences included minimum contract is 3-6 months.

Musicals / Cirque du Solei gigs: learn to read, rake in 50-100K salary per year.

Indie bands: We have serious rockstars that started out as "indie bands" - Sam Roberts, The Stills, Arcade Fire, Priestess, The Stars, Patrick Watson, Cinematic orchestra, Rufus wainright etc... stick to your principles, do none of the other gigs I mentioned above, look cool, never shower, claim to never practice but in reality you sing scales every morning for 2 hours a day and it shows because you are a world class act.

Jazz Gigs at fancy restaurants: pay very well do the same as the accoustic gigs

Studio gigs: meet studio owners and their clients, make calls at regular intervals, invite them to your shows make them feel special and ASK for the gig. you'll be recording jingles and songwriting demos in no time (prepare for these gigs by getting your tone together and working with the metronome every day.)

teaching: yes its a gig. post your add online. also make friends with the music store salesmen who sell basses and get asked: "where can I get lessons" every day.

then, if you still want to a small room of nobodies, try to book a gig in a dive. Don't promote it or even use a promoter or booking agent. play your own originals badly(and way too loud), and get paid 10 each$.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Let me tell you about gigging in Montreal...

there are basically at least ten levels of gigs available in town from busking to playing the Bell center (50,000 seat Hockey arena)

Did they add on to the Bell Centre? Surely it's in the 22,000 seat range. Maybe more if you have the ice level floor space.

 

[fear_n_greed]

Seems to be easy enough up here. We're booked at a number of festivals and gigs throughout the summer, half way across this country. Original music. Should be a lot of fun....

 

[dhomer]

Here in western Michigan, we have a different reality. There is a booking agent here who has succeeded in signing up a vast majority of clubs to his contract. Which means as a club manager booking is one phone call. To us musicians, its the reality if you want to work more than a weekend every two months, you better get used to his business model and be prepared to do some #$%!! kissing. He's got things set up so if you happen to book one of his clubs on your own you STILL owe his cut. And heaven forbid if you go out on your own and book a club he didn't want you to play, he's been known to shorten your schedule.. a lot..

Not to say you can't make good money and work a lot with this guy, it helps if you have a female lead singer and can cover everything form Sinatra to AC/DC. He just has a not-so-good reputation amongst the musician rank-and-file around here, but the reality is, he has the gigs..

 

[jmattbassplaya]

In today's no-social-skills-technology-based world, it seems many people want to avoid talking to another human being as it makes them uncomfortable and might lead to confrontation.

In my experience, that is.

+1

Couldn`t agree more with that statement. It`s like that with everything now-a-days, with some exception to random strangers argueing with each online since they`ll never meet each other in person.

 

[bassbully]

I dont know i have let alot of the stress go by promoting the band and music and making the money thing last for once. I remember when it was my first thought..not how good the exposure was or the gig it was did it pay well.
Today In an all original band we are promoting ourselves and music. If we make some money great if not thats cool too if the gig was a good one.I know my area and scene is horrible and even if you have the great band and time to promote you wont make much anyhow. I also know for the time I have invested when i did make decent money say $100 a night after gas ,food a few beers, pay the sitter and my time what did i really make?

Today its about getting good gigs with decent crowds that enjoy original music. We are doing more coffee shops, winerys, festivals, art shows etc. My wife and i attend allot of art shows and one time i was thinking, you see the same vendors sometimes setting up at the shows having some awsome works glass, jewelry, paintings etc. They put in allot of time and effort sitting at these shows that cost them money to enter for a booth or table hoping for sales.There is nothing saying they will make one cent for the time invested in the art, setup,teardown,promotion etc of running the booth at an art show.The people who do it have overheard for all of this like anyone else so how much do they make for their time? The artists i talk to do it cuz they love it and most of the money goes back into the art and a little might be profit.This might not be the case for all but most. They have day jobs etc and allot of them are doing this on weekends etc...again not all. Sounds like us...We set up play and get little pay and complain all the time we never make enough for our art. Do we struggle or put in half as much time as say the artists do? They pay for their chances to sell wares...we ask to be paid to play ours. I feel my job and art is to entertain and if my music does that i am good...money or no money.

 

[txbasschik]

Somewhere along the line, the reason for a live band changed from: entertain the people who frequent the establishment...to...bring the audience. All this amounts to is lazy club owners & promoters who shove off THEIR JOB onto someone else. Many years ago, when I began going to clubs, the clubs were packed, good bands were booked several nights a week, everybody made good money, & life in that world was a positive thing. Then the chizzlers & carpetbaggers took over, shoving off their responsibilites onto everyone else. Bands have always made peanuts, relative to the time 3, 4, or 5 members spend at a gig...not to mention the prep time, travel time, etc...so the pockets are generally not there to promote, compared to what a club takes in. So the promotion suffers, & audiences decline. Add to that the lower tolerance DUI laws, anti-smoking ordinances, & the state of the economy in general (not to mention the variety of other things for people to entertain themselves with these days..."live DJ!"...makes me wanna vomit) and the whole live music scene has taken a huge hit.

Anyone trying to promote their selection of songs...covers, tribute, or original...has my respect, because the deck is truly stacked against us.

Sad but only too true.

The cops hound people who frequent bars to listen to live music. They have actually followed our fans *home*. Texas recently made it legal to take your blood, by force, if you refuse to blow. "Noise" ordinances...smoking ordinances...lazy venue managers/owners...frakkin' "DJ's"...all pile up to hurt live music, both original and cover.

More and more places are offering 10% of the door + tips, or just plain tips. They say, "Get your friends to come along." Well...our friends don't live downtown. They'll only come to one of two local bars.

There's a growing trend of clubs using promoters to book their bands. This stinks. You have to pay the promoter 15% of what you make, which is no more than we could have gotten for ourselves, without a promoter. Basically, you have to pay him or her for booking you. That's all they did. Returned a phone call or an e-mail, put up some posters...and you're supposed to pay them for that.

FRAK THAT GARBAGE!!!

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

In the mid 70's, I was in a punk band in North San Diego County, which was full of country bars...try getting a gig in one of those and survive it!

RAWHIDE!!!

Cherie

 

[TonyP-]

+1. Can't tell you how valuable this attitude has been to me for getting gigs. NETWORKING= $$$$. I make a point to befriend every talented musician/band that I come across. Especially drummers and other bassists. Gotten a lot of top-dollar gigs from those contacts over the years.

+100 to this.

I hate to say this but who you know goes a loooooonnngggggg way.

I hear your pain folks it has gotten worse over the years, but...There are still gigs out there where make some money.

I'm purposely won't go on about this...but end it saying they are out there.