I don't understand multi effects

[Mayo Fan]

What's that you speak of, an amp? And you run that into 410 of something at what speed? I thought a rig is used to haul freight?

Joking aside, a lot of people play ampless all the time nowadays and the numbers are only growing. I only bring my pedalboard and feed the FOH my finely tuned signal from a multi FX (HX Stomp) through a good DI. I think I've used my amp on about 20% of the gigs this year, but that's because there was an unusual string of gigs without decent PA support.

And no, you are not required to use every feature at your disposal. I'm barely scratching the surface on my Stomp, but it does what I use it for very well.

 

[txhawaii]

but at least I don't have to go shopping for a different $200 pedal every time I want a specific sound for only one or two songs we do.

I think this sums up why I wanted a multi effects pedal.

Sounds like you understand. I have a Zoom B1 Four and the amp sims are perfect for home recording/making YouTube videos. I haven't run them through my amp because I haven't needed to. And if you like the way your amp sounds, then just ignore them and use the Zoom for effects.

Zoom makes a great product. What I like about the B1 Four vs the B2 Four is the way the presets are organized. There are 40 presets in 4 sets of 10. 10-19 are clean tones, 20-29 are drive tones, 30-39 effects, 40-49 amp sims. I don't use all of them, and I would say there are about 10 I use regularly. I've looked into the B2 Four and the presets are what have kept me from getting one. 250 of them named after songs, not sounds. IMO, way too many and poorly organized. So use what works for you. Have fun with the unit. It's much cheaper than buying pedals, and if you find ones that work for you, great, if not, just have fun with it.

And this sums up the confusion of having all these unusable patches in the b2four.

 

[brianrost]

things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?

Some people want their current amp to sound like a different amp altogether. That’s all there is to it.

 

[Geogio]

So I will acknowledge I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

IHappy New Year.

I've had a few processors any value for my purposes was in a studio. Or farting around at home. It's hard to do anything on the fly unless you're just going to stick to ordered preset if there are presets.

I went on one of those harbor dinner cruises with a dance band and I watched the guitarist click through every song or tonal change 1,2,3 etc... he had everything preset for 3 sets. I'm pretty sure it was something like an alesis quadraverb. I took notice, it was wonderfully done but it was totally restrictive. Good band too. they were tight. I've seen Duets do the same thing with drum machines and canned backing etc.. You definitely are restricted and in the can so to speak.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I think this sums up why I wanted a multi effects pedal.

And this sums up the confusion of having all these unusable patches in the b2four.

I use a GT-1B for the same reason. I originally needed a Slow Gear, long out of production and not cheap if found used, and stumbled on the patch in the multi-effect. I've also ended up using it for ocasional chorus, flange, reverb, phasing, and a few combo patches.

The only time I use the amp or cab sims are if I use the device as a battery powered headphone amp. It works for most of the scantily used effects I need, and is a lot cheaper and lighter to carry. I still use an external compressor, tuner, and Q-strip because the multi is a PITA to adjust on the fly.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I don't understand them either. That's why I have a pedalboard with individual effects I kick in and kick out. Going through banks of effects doesn't work in a live setting.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

To hear exactly what the pre and cab simulations are doing you would need headphones or a flat PA/amp of some sort, but I still like the simulation with an amp.

My "bedroom amp" sounds kind of sterile on its own since I am not pushing the amp or speaker. I like to use my GT-1B to add some tube-amp simulation (pre) to get a little "meat" in my sound. I like some mild tube-amp distortion, not "fuzz". Tube amps naturally distort in a more musical way.

 

[2cooltoolz]

So I will acknowledge I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

I have a Fender B100T and it runs through a 410 SWR. On its own, it's a nice rig. No complaints.

I found I was wasting loads of cash on effects so I got a Zoom B2 Four and can access preamps, chorus, etc.

But things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?

Effects like a flanger etc seem fine as do the amp modelers but I feel like I'm missing the boat.

Should I be running the zoom (or helix or SGT) directly to a frfr to really get what the device really does? I don't record into a computer so thats out but it seems these multis are meant for that?

Is this the same for the SGT DI? Do people run these through their rigs or are they best used DI out or though a power amp like even something as simple like the EH Magnum 44 into a cab?

Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum 44-watt Guitar Amplifier Pedal

If I ran the SGT with a 15 cab IR into my 410 am I just wasting time believing it will turn into a b15?

I don't understand how these multi effects like the zoom or the helix or the SGT truly work.

Am I making sense because I'm confused.

Happy New Year.

You're right!

 

[txhawaii]

I don't understand them either. That's why I have a pedalboard with individual effects I kick in and kick out. Going through banks of effects doesn't work in a live setting.

do you play through a amp/cab or straight to FOH?

 

[Lance Bunyon]

do you play through a amp/cab or straight to FOH?

Both. Bass>amp>PA>IEM

 

[HelpImaRock]

It may help to think of tone as a sandwich, everything you add to the sandwich contributes to the flavor. Your amp and cab are the bread and meat so consider effects as additions like different cheese, veggies or condiments. Does that help any?

An electric ham sandwich?

 

[txhawaii]

I decided to try a multi unit instead of dropping lots of $$$ on several individual effects boxes, so I got a Zoom B6. I have to admit that I'm still getting to know it after several months, since I don't get to do much in terms of oddball sounds with my band. I mostly drive the bus along with our drummer and I also like the sound I get with my current rig (amp and cabs). I wanted a multi unit to try a little of this an that without making a mess.

My amp setup includes a pair of 2x10 cabs and I use either a GK MB 500 or a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 to drive them. I'm liking the clarity and volume levels I get using either head and I'm often playing this rig without PA support for my sound. Decent sound, plenty of volume, and I'm okay with loading in/out on my own.

Once I started noodling with my B6 both at practices with the band and also at a couple gigs, I quickly realized that I'd probably find more uses for those different amp models and IR's if I was doing some recording. That's where the subtle differences in my tone would stand out a bit more compared with playing rock and dance covers with the band at some joint on a weekend evening.

A few different patches have turned out to be useful for one song or another - one is synthy for a Lady Gaga song, another has some pretty ample drive (for Ace of Spades!!), and there are a couple that just have a nice fundamental big 'n warm tone that keeps it bumpin' along. I'm sure I'll find uses for a few more as I go.

All the different tweaks with my sound that I might want to try are available here in one gizmo. I'm noodling with a delay for one 80's tune we've talked about, I can quack around on an envelope filter easily enough, or just use one patch as a virtual layout of four individual effects set up in a row to switch on/off for an intro, fill, or little solo. Maybe this unit is overkill for me, but at least I don't have to go shopping for a different $200 pedal every time I want a specific sound for only one or two songs we do.

I'm happy enough to wave the pom-poms for Zoom here because the B6 is packed with a boatload of relevant features and it's also really easy to dive in and tweak it using the touch screen and corresponding knobs. I used a couple sounds in this unit at a gig only a couple days after I got it. Lots of drum tracks to jam along with, I've just started experimenting on the looper, and the chromatic tuner is terrific (super accurate). If I try to go ampless or get some of my sound going through a PA in the future, this also has a flexible DI.

Yaddah-yaddah... sorry. You might just find that you'll use your multi for some things when playing live, but then other sounds and functions will come more into play when you're practicing or recording.

I owned the b6 early last year but sold it to fund a purchase but missed having the multi effects unit. I didn't want to pay full price to replace it once I got the funds to do it so I figured the b2 Four would be a good fit as I got it for a good price off tb and there were no b6s for sale at the time. the b6 has a better interface but I don't see there being much of a sound difference but what do I know.

if I were playing live, the b6 is much better to work with in my opinion but a again, wdik?

I plugged in my b24 into my effects loop and am going through the sounds. its a nice toy...rather tool. nothing wrong with having a variety of sounds at my fingertips.

 

[SteveCS]

What I like about the B1 Four vs the B2 Four is the way the presets are organized.
...
I've looked into the B2 Four and the presets are what have kept me from getting one. 250 of them named after songs, not sounds. IMO, way too many and poorly organized.

IMHO this is not a good reason to choose any one over any other. Both units (and pretty much anything* from any of the leading brands) allow you to change the names and to re-order to suit your requirements - nothing is fixed in that regard.

* Excluding those basic consumer-grade units that only identify patches by number or location such as '001' or 'A-2'.

 

[Medford Bassman]

For years I used a Digitech BP355 at gigs direct into the FOH using its XLR out. I set up about 5 patches of amp/cab models an some with some additional effects. My guitarist at the time used the guitar version RP355. That unit worked well for me. By far not the top of the line but effective, made setup/teardown a breeze. I later stopped using it because the tuner on it was hard to see at daytime gigs. I went back to a simple BDDI until the band dissolved.

 

[SteveCS]

...
That's why I have a pedalboard with individual effects I kick in and kick out. Going through banks of effects doesn't work in a live setting.

I can see the attraction of having instant access to all of the settings, especially when in the 'creative' zone. I don't do that 'live' but I do go through the process and I want to capture the results/outcomes for live use, which is where the multi-effect devices come in. So for me, and I'm sure many others, having one-or-two-step access to specifically modified (I wanted to say 'carefully crafted' but it sounded pretentious and is probably not entirely true!) presets for a few generic/basic sounds and a few dozen more for specific songs is the game-changer over individual stomp-box pedals in a live setting.

Yes I have to take the time to configure everything (mainly at home then a bit of fine-tuning in the context of a band) but once it is done that's it, save a bit of 'improvement' over time. There is no way I want to spend any more than the necessary minimum time doing tap-dances between tunes, and I certainly don't want the burden of having to remember lists of knob settings for each one. It is trivial to switch the B3n between 'Memory' and 'Stomp' modes where the footswitches can be used to toggle individual effects on/off, but in practice I have found it easier still to set up adjacent patches for sections of a given tune and just label them accordingly.

With that said, I do have a handful of individual pedals on the board. Two of them are TC 'Toneprint' pedals - the toneprints I have created use custom parameter mapping to basically assign each knob 3 positions (CCW, TDC and CW) that in certain combinations make the equivalent of 'presets'. Provided a knob is 'left', 'right' or 'close to TDC' the parameters linked to it are fixed across a range of positions so there is no need to turn to a precise position.

Certainly a horses for courses question with no right or wrong answers, IMHO.

 

[Seth DuSith]

Even though I play through an amp, I like the additional IR anyway. It adds more thump to my grindy distorted sound, so that even tho I play with a thin, aggressive distortion, my bass still works as a bass

It's even nicer in clean channels, IMO, cause it allows you to get that nice sub woofer effect

 

[SoCal80s]

I use the Zoom B1x Four and am currently running through an amp. I mostly use the noise gate, HPF, and volume pedal set always on. I turn the chorus on for certain songs (and use external an distortion and compressor with it). No cab or amp sims. The sims and 60+ other effects are there if I ever need them, but it's doing a lot for my tone as is.

 

[Jefenator]

Sometimes it's best not to overthink things, or to let theory or someone else's arbitrary rules trump what you feel in your tail bone.
I liked having the sims for the one amp-less gig I did.
I expect sims might be redundant with a real amp I like the sound of. But, things don't always go as expected.

 

[Seth DuSith]

I use the Zoom B1x Four and am currently running through an amp. I mostly use the noise gate, HPF, and volume pedal set always on. I turn the chorus on for certain songs (and use external an distortion and compressor with it). No cab or amp sims. The sims and 60+ other effects are there if I ever need them, but it's doing a lot for my tone as is.

Yea, honestly it's a super handy device. Even just for the multitude of effects, or processing it can do to your sound. I use it for my bass and guitar, sometimes even my keyboard/electric piano. I could never imagine not using it.

Sometimes it's best not to overthink things, or to let theory or someone else's arbitrary rules trump what you feel in your tail bone.

I liked having the sims for the one amp-less gig I did.

I expect sims might be redundant with a real amp I like the sound of. But, things don't always go as expected.

Yea agreed. It just gives it a heavier, sub woofer like sound. It's beauitful

 

[Lance Bunyon]

An electric ham sandwich?

Zappa really had a way with words.