I don't understand multi effects

[DaveParker39]

You get the point. If you used one it would be for the pedal models and you would likely not use IR/Mic Sim/Amp Sim with your amp. But if you went direct you could if you wanted.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Yes I have to take the time to configure everything (mainly at home then a bit of fine-tuning in the context of a band) but once it is done that's it, save a bit of 'improvement' over time. There is no way I want to spend any more than the necessary minimum time doing tap-dances between tunes, and I certainly don't want the burden of having to remember lists of knob settings for each one.

Many multi units have software available that connects via USB that makes configuring and experimenting far easier than the front panel buttons on the unit.

 

[txhawaii]

I think the most obvious use case for an amp/cab model is when you run a rig that has a heavy role in defining your tone (like an SVT/810) but your situation requires you to run direct to an FOH and possibly leave the Ampeg at home entirely. That way you can dial in some of your rig sound into your FOH signal.

Otherwise, if you’re using amp and cab simulators and then running into an amp, you’re breaking no rules but what you’re getting is the aggregate of all that processing coming out of your amp. Which might sound fine, but to your original point if you already like the way your amp sounds why bother.

I use a Zoom B3n and I do have a bit of SVT model in my all-the-time dry signal, just because I think it does a nice job of warming up the tone. But I use it so sparingly that I might be the only one who notices.

To me, the value of multiFX units lies in the simplicity of use at gigs (maybe just one power cable and one extra patch cord), the ability to order effects varyingly based on what result I want (compressor at the beginning vs at the end does different things), and the ability to create patches containing a few effects used together, but in differing ways from one patch to the next - and access them all with one or two foot moves. The Zoom B3n might not be studio-grade but it is small, inexpensive, easy to use, and sounds good enough.

are you running the zoom into an amp?

I used to have the b3n and I really liked it. I upgraded to the b6 and found it was superior to the b3n. the b2 four is, in my ignorant experience, a scaled down b6 thats less user friendly and a tad more confusing.

if I think about the beginning of this post,I just want to stop spending money on pedals and be happy with a zoom kine apparatus but the lure of pedals is strong.

but as I said, I have a tube amp...I can get all sorts of tubey sounds...

why do I need an tube pre and other modeling pedals? Do I need a helix or B6 or dark glass?

what do I need?

a slampegg?

a vt bass?

 

[txhawaii]

In continuation with this multi effects question...I do have one more question.

Software like the Brainworx plugins are just like a moddler or multi effects as I understand it...hence a laptop cannot work as an "amp" via software, and play out of a cab. I would think studio monitors plugged into a computer would work but that seems like a lot of work.

can a multi effects run into a laptop and play out of monitors? are we anywhere near laptops running the show?

I don' have an interest in recording in as much as playing to hear myself.

Please enlighten me if I am off base here.

 

[Sid Fang]

If the laptop has a good quality audio interface with enough analog hardware inputs and outputs, then not only could you just run the multi-effects into the computer, but you don't even need the multi-effects unit. You just run a virtual effects program like Native Instruments' Guitar Rig on the computer, and it *becomes* the multi-effects unit.

 

[txhawaii]

If the laptop has a good quality audio interface with enough analog hardware inputs and outputs, then not only could you just run the multi-effects into the computer, but you don't even need the multi-effects unit. You just run a virtual effects program like Native Instruments' Guitar Rig on the computer, and it *becomes* the multi-effects unit.

interesting...so native instruments is a virtual amp. I can focusrite into the the laptop but how do you get sound? I would assume I wouldn't be able to run my 410 cab.

 

[GotGroove]

interesting...so native instruments is a virtual amp. I can focusrite into the the laptop but how do you get sound? I would assume I wouldn't be able to run my 410 cab.

You can, but not with just your focusrite and a bare cab, but you're halfway there. As you said, the focusrite lacks the power to run a cab by itself. While NI (guitar rig) is a virtual amp of sorts, it has no power to supply anything directly either. It's all midi I/O after all. But it will work with any combo, amp or even FOH if you have to. I've played live with NI Guitar rig and the pedal board (Basically it was a midi controller with both in- and outputs) that came with it and it worked like a charm. My Chain: bass> Rig Control> USB to macbook > Guitar rig> USB back to Rig Control> amp or FOH (with a DI in between) if you want.


As a backup I had a cheap Behringer UCG102 to sit between bass and laptop. In that case the chain changes to: bass>Behringer UCG102 input> Guitar Rig on a Macbook>Behringer UCG102 out>amp(or effects loop). The downside was that you couldn't switch effects on or off anymore. You still need a midi-controller for that and the UCG102 is just a USB signal converter. You could only change patches/effects on screen. But i wasn't much of an effect switcher during songs, so I didn't mind. If your focusrite has a regular line level output you could use that instead, but by itself it would have the same limitations.



They don't ship those pedalboards with GR anymore, but any midi foot switch controller that has a line out would do the job. You'd just have to set the midi channels properly. If you don't have a line out on it, use the UCG102 (or perhaps your focusrite?) to create one. Or you can use the UCG102 by itself if you don't mind switching presets on the laptop.

-edit-
had to look up the name of the pedal board-

 

[txhawaii]

You can, but not with just your focusrite and a bare cab, but you're halfway there. As you said, the focusrite lacks the power to run a cab by itself. While NI (guitar rig) is a virtual amp of sorts, it has no power to supply anything directly either. It's all midi I/O after all. But it will work with any combo, amp or even FOH if you have to. I've played live with NI Guitar rig and the pedal board (Basically it was a midi controller with both in- and outputs) that came with it and it worked like a charm. My Chain: bass> Rig Control> USB to macbook > Guitar rig> USB back to Rig Control> amp or FOH (with a DI in between) if you want.
View attachment 5335578

As a backup I had a cheap Behringer UCG102 to sit between bass and laptop. In that case the chain changes to: bass>Behringer UCG102 input> Guitar Rig on a Macbook>Behringer UCG102 out>amp(or effects loop). The downside was that you couldn't switch effects on or off anymore. You still need a midi-controller for that and the UCG102 is just a USB signal converter. You could only change patches/effects on screen. But i wasn't much of an effect switcher during songs, so I didn't mind. If your focusrite has a regular line level output you could use that instead, but by itself it would have the same limitations.

View attachment 5335511

They don't ship those pedalboards with GR anymore, but any midi foot switch controller that has a line out would do the job. You'd just have to set the midi channels properly. If you don't have a line out on it, use the UCG102 (or perhaps your focusrite?) to create one. Or you can use the UCG102 by itself if you don't mind switching presets on the laptop.

-edit-
had to look up the name of the pedal board-

great information here but a big pain in the ass.

I guess a virtual SVT works better in the realm of recording and not so much playing live or what have you.

 

[GotGroove]

I guess a virtual SVT works better in the realm of recording and not so much playing live or what have you.

I only use it for recording guitar and vocals these days, but it can do the job on a gig. That's the only point I was trying to make. Either you go messing about spending a fortune on separate effects, pedal boards, velcro tape, power supplies and a ton of stuff to carry everywhere or you take your laptop (which can also cost a fortune. You really do want a macbook to get the best results), a midi controller and something to create a line out on your laptop, which weighs almost nothing compared to a full pedalboard.
One way is not better or cheaper than the other per se. It's just another way of doing things. The only issues with GR for me is that most of the effects are aimed at guitar players. But that too is a matter of opinion and largely depending on the sound you're trying to create.

You can go way further than just using GR live though. Imagine all the VST's you have in your daw available for live performance. You'd just switch to another recording channel for each sound. As a bonus you get an easy way to record yourself live. It all has pro's and cons.

 

[Sid Fang]

…I guess a virtual SVT works better in the realm of recording and not so much playing live or what have you.

Actually it’s great for live use IF the venue has a good PA. A computer interface audio out can be run direct to the mixing console and sent from there to monitors and mains as appropriate. In large concert settings, this is actually pretty optimal. It breaks down in small gig and jam settings where there is no PA, or the PA can’t handle bass properly. My own little PA rig can do it, but only if I schlep the rather heavy subwoofer. For that reason I use this DAW-to-board approach for guitar much more often than for bass, but it does work.

 

[txhawaii]

@Sid Fang @GotGroove thanks for all the advice...rather the education.