I don't understand multi effects

[txhawaii]

So I will acknowledge I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

I have a Fender B100T and it runs through a 410 SWR. On its own, it's a nice rig. No complaints.

I found I was wasting loads of cash on effects so I got a Zoom B2 Four and can access preamps, chorus, etc.

But things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?

Effects like a flanger etc seem fine as do the amp modelers but I feel like I'm missing the boat.

Should I be running the zoom (or helix or SGT) directly to a frfr to really get what the device really does? I don't record into a computer so thats out but it seems these multis are meant for that?

Is this the same for the SGT DI? Do people run these through their rigs or are they best used DI out or though a power amp like even something as simple like the EH Magnum 44 into a cab?

Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum 44-watt Guitar Amplifier Pedal

If I ran the SGT with a 15 cab IR into my 410 am I just wasting time believing it will turn into a b15?

I don't understand how these multi effects like the zoom or the helix or the SGT truly work.

Am I making sense because I'm confused.

Happy New Year.

 

[SteveCS]

...
I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

I have a Fender B100T and it runs through a 410 SWR. On its own, it's a nice rig. No complaints.
...
But things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?
...
Should I be running the zoom (or helix or SGT) directly to a frfr to really get what the device really does? I don't record into a computer so thats out but it seems these multis are meant for that?
...

Seems to me that you fully understand what is going on. The amp/cab* that you use for live sound will always stamp its character over whatever you put into it. Sometimes it will work well; sometimes you will find yourself fighting against the amp/cab as you try to force it to do something it cannot do; sometimes you will find the modeller settings look totally absurd because of the way the modeller and the character of your amp/cab interact. In the end all that matters is the result - this is one situation where "if it sounds right it is right".

...
If I ran the SGT with a 15 cab IR into my 410 am I just wasting time believing it will turn into a b15?
...

As I understand it (from being old enough to remember) the SWR 410 was not a highly-coloured cab, so I wouldn't give up just yet . If you were wanting to go the other way, i.e. play through a physical B-15 and have it sound like a Trace Elliot AH500-12 with 1x15, 4x10 and a top-box, then that probably would be an exercise in futility!!


* Amp to some extent, cab to a larger extent

 

[txhawaii]

Oddly, I've been to Hampshire...I almost got run over crossing the road because I was looking the opposite direction. Then I got called a paki in a bar and I barked back that I was a New Yorker (I lived there in a different life.) the dummy was dumbfounded.

Guinness in the UK is really tasty.

I missed going a south Hampton match by a day sadly...would have been fun.

thanks for the info. I guess I know a bit more than I think.

 

[JesterR]

Amp sim needs to simulate amp. Cab sim needs to simulate cab. If you need to get sound of an amp with cab miced but can not use real amp+cab+mic, you could use pedals like Ampegs SGT. If you do not need it, do not use it.

 

[Gigas444]

Hello, it seems to me you got the point:
- when plugged into an amp the digital sims/multieffects shoulld be without the IR (since you use a real cab with it's own "colour") + use the "return" of the amp to plug it in so you bypass the amp pre since you're using adigital pre
- a FRFR should be the best yes, but there are not many intended for bass on the market at the moment, the best I've tried so far is the Blackstar U250 active cab which is a cab with no pre, but it has a built in power amp, so you can plug in the pre/sim/digital/multieffect you prefer directly (with IR disabled of course), on this cab you will have to tweak the volume knob only and you can sculpt your sound with the sims

 

[SteveCS]

Oddly, I've been to Hampshire...I almost got run over crossing the road because I was looking the opposite direction.
...

You can go anywhere in the UK for that!! Where in Hampshire did you go?

...
Then I got called a paki in a bar
...

Hopefully that was a long time ago. I'd like to think things are no longer that way - that's not a word I've heard in several decades but sadly there will always be a dinosaur sticking its neck out from under a rock somewhere - also not unique to Hampshire.

 

[projectapollo]

The new Line 6 HX One just provides a selection of effects, no amp sims, no cab sims which you get in the larger HX Stomp. If you are happy with your amp/cab tone, maybe a simpler multi-effects like the HX One is a cheaper simpler solution.

 

[txhawaii]

You can go anywhere in the UK for that!! Where in Hampshire did you go?



Hopefully that was a long time ago. I'd like to think things are no longer that way - that's not a word I've heard in several decades but sadly there will always be a dinosaur sticking its neck out from under a rock somewhere - also not unique to Hampshire.

This was maybe in 99 or 00. Becks was still at united. It was a long time ago. It was in south ham I think. I went to a random pub and the three lads that I ran into asked me something but their accent was very heavy. When I didn’t answer I thought they called me a pachyderm. I scratched my head wondering why these kids called me an elephant. It took me a while to figure out that slur. I don’t think 9/11 happened yet lol.

I recall we stayed at a holiday Inn? Blood sausages and beans for breakfast. And we worked around a liquor distributor. Bacardi etc.

 

[bassbrad]

It may help to think of tone as a sandwich, everything you add to the sandwich contributes to the flavor. Your amp and cab are the bread and meat so consider effects as additions like different cheese, veggies or condiments. Does that help any?

 

[bigjames]

FWIW, I use a Zoom B3 for FX, but I only use the amp models when I am playing in an ampless environment. The most apt was playing in a church with individual monitors, but no amps on stage. I found the best amp model for the environment was called "Heavenly" which I found apropos.

 

[ashtray]

You can play around with the amp and cab sims, but typically you don’t need them when playing through an amp and cab. And heck, you don’t really need them even if running your bass DI to a board or recording device.

I don’t typically use effects on bass, but they’re fun to mess with now and then. I’ve seen bass effects done well in a cover band where the bass player copped a tone/effect very close to the original recording.

Feel free to not use any effects you don’t need. Also be very careful within multi-effects units as sometimes each effect you turn on will give you some eq’ing options. If you start messing with tone/eq at each effect, you can end up with some hot spots and dead spots in your frequency range, and just be very unhappy with your tone.

 

[Altitude]

I think the most obvious use case for an amp/cab model is when you run a rig that has a heavy role in defining your tone (like an SVT/810) but your situation requires you to run direct to an FOH and possibly leave the Ampeg at home entirely. That way you can dial in some of your rig sound into your FOH signal.

Otherwise, if you’re using amp and cab simulators and then running into an amp, you’re breaking no rules but what you’re getting is the aggregate of all that processing coming out of your amp. Which might sound fine, but to your original point if you already like the way your amp sounds why bother.

I use a Zoom B3n and I do have a bit of SVT model in my all-the-time dry signal, just because I think it does a nice job of warming up the tone. But I use it so sparingly that I might be the only one who notices.

To me, the value of multiFX units lies in the simplicity of use at gigs (maybe just one power cable and one extra patch cord), the ability to order effects varyingly based on what result I want (compressor at the beginning vs at the end does different things), and the ability to create patches containing a few effects used together, but in differing ways from one patch to the next - and access them all with one or two foot moves. The Zoom B3n might not be studio-grade but it is small, inexpensive, easy to use, and sounds good enough.

 

[Ulf Buck]

I use a quad cortex. It allows me to send a consistent sound to FOH and the cab sim makes it easier to assure that the sound I desire is getting out front. Hopefully all the sound guy has to do is tweak eq for the room. On board effects and an effective detune function for low tunings on bass is another great thing about the quad cortex.

 

[txhawaii]

Hello, it seems to me you got the point:
- when plugged into an amp the digital sims/multieffects shoulld be without the IR (since you use a real cab with it's own "colour") + use the "return" of the amp to plug it in so you bypass the amp pre since you're using adigital pre
- a FRFR should be the best yes, but there are not many intended for bass on the market at the moment, the best I've tried so far is the Blackstar U250 active cab which is a cab with no pre, but it has a built in power amp, so you can plug in the pre/sim/digital/multieffect you prefer directly (with IR disabled of course), on this cab you will have to tweak the volume knob only and you can sculpt your sound with the sims

I never thought to plug the zoom into the return for amp modeling. I'll try that

 

[Sid Fang]

Another thing to consider is that a mass market pedal will statistically see most of its use in people's bedrooms and living rooms, where cab sim is of more interest. Better to have it and not want it than to want it and not have it, and once the effects are in the digital domain, there's no actual materials cost to including the feature, just a bit more software to load.

 

[groove pump]

So I will acknowledge I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

I have a Fender B100T and it runs through a 410 SWR. On its own, it's a nice rig. No complaints.

I found I was wasting loads of cash on effects so I got a Zoom B2 Four and can access preamps, chorus, etc.

But things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?

Effects like a flanger etc seem fine as do the amp modelers but I feel like I'm missing the boat.

Should I be running the zoom (or helix or SGT) directly to a frfr to really get what the device really does? I don't record into a computer so thats out but it seems these multis are meant for that?

Is this the same for the SGT DI? Do people run these through their rigs or are they best used DI out or though a power amp like even something as simple like the EH Magnum 44 into a cab?

Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum 44-watt Guitar Amplifier Pedal

If I ran the SGT with a 15 cab IR into my 410 am I just wasting time believing it will turn into a b15?

I don't understand how these multi effects like the zoom or the helix or the SGT truly work.

Am I making sense because I'm confused.

Happy New Year.

I decided to try a multi unit instead of dropping lots of $$$ on several individual effects boxes, so I got a Zoom B6. I have to admit that I'm still getting to know it after several months, since I don't get to do much in terms of oddball sounds with my band. I mostly drive the bus along with our drummer and I also like the sound I get with my current rig (amp and cabs). I wanted a multi unit to try a little of this an that without making a mess.

My amp setup includes a pair of 2x10 cabs and I use either a GK MB 500 or a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 to drive them. I'm liking the clarity and volume levels I get using either head and I'm often playing this rig without PA support for my sound. Decent sound, plenty of volume, and I'm okay with loading in/out on my own.

Once I started noodling with my B6 both at practices with the band and also at a couple gigs, I quickly realized that I'd probably find more uses for those different amp models and IR's if I was doing some recording. That's where the subtle differences in my tone would stand out a bit more compared with playing rock and dance covers with the band at some joint on a weekend evening.

A few different patches have turned out to be useful for one song or another - one is synthy for a Lady Gaga song, another has some pretty ample drive (for Ace of Spades!!), and there are a couple that just have a nice fundamental big 'n warm tone that keeps it bumpin' along. I'm sure I'll find uses for a few more as I go.

All the different tweaks with my sound that I might want to try are available here in one gizmo. I'm noodling with a delay for one 80's tune we've talked about, I can quack around on an envelope filter easily enough, or just use one patch as a virtual layout of four individual effects set up in a row to switch on/off for an intro, fill, or little solo. Maybe this unit is overkill for me, but at least I don't have to go shopping for a different $200 pedal every time I want a specific sound for only one or two songs we do.

I'm happy enough to wave the pom-poms for Zoom here because the B6 is packed with a boatload of relevant features and it's also really easy to dive in and tweak it using the touch screen and corresponding knobs. I used a couple sounds in this unit at a gig only a couple days after I got it. Lots of drum tracks to jam along with, I've just started experimenting on the looper, and the chromatic tuner is terrific (super accurate). If I try to go ampless or get some of my sound going through a PA in the future, this also has a flexible DI.

Yaddah-yaddah... sorry. You might just find that you'll use your multi for some things when playing live, but then other sounds and functions will come more into play when you're practicing or recording.

 

[Thom Fioriglio]

Sounds like you understand. I have a Zoom B1 Four and the amp sims are perfect for home recording/making YouTube videos. I haven't run them through my amp because I haven't needed to. And if you like the way your amp sounds, then just ignore them and use the Zoom for effects.

Zoom makes a great product. What I like about the B1 Four vs the B2 Four is the way the presets are organized. There are 40 presets in 4 sets of 10. 10-19 are clean tones, 20-29 are drive tones, 30-39 effects, 40-49 amp sims. I don't use all of them, and I would say there are about 10 I use regularly. I've looked into the B2 Four and the presets are what have kept me from getting one. 250 of them named after songs, not sounds. IMO, way too many and poorly organized. So use what works for you. Have fun with the unit. It's much cheaper than buying pedals, and if you find ones that work for you, great, if not, just have fun with it.

 

[TheArchitect]

So I will acknowledge I don't understand multi effects, modelers, Ampegs SGT DI, Helix, Origin Effects etc.

I have a Fender B100T and it runs through a 410 SWR. On its own, it's a nice rig. No complaints.

I found I was wasting loads of cash on effects so I got a Zoom B2 Four and can access preamps, chorus, etc.

But things like amp modelers and IR and other things leave me confused. As I understand it, my rig already has color (amp/cab/drivers) so trying to run a fliptop modeler with a 15 IR cab is sorta fruitless, no?

Effects like a flanger etc seem fine as do the amp modelers but I feel like I'm missing the boat.

Should I be running the zoom (or helix or SGT) directly to a frfr to really get what the device really does? I don't record into a computer so thats out but it seems these multis are meant for that?

Is this the same for the SGT DI? Do people run these through their rigs or are they best used DI out or though a power amp like even something as simple like the EH Magnum 44 into a cab?

Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum 44-watt Guitar Amplifier Pedal

If I ran the SGT with a 15 cab IR into my 410 am I just wasting time believing it will turn into a b15?

I don't understand how these multi effects like the zoom or the helix or the SGT truly work.

Am I making sense because I'm confused.

Happy New Year.

What's to understand. They are multieffects because they do many things. Going DI? Use the amp and speakers sims with the effects. Effects loop? Use the eq and time based stuff. In front of amp? Use the compressors etc. You use what you need.

 

[MtManiac]

It sounds like you’re mostly struggling with IRs. If you’re using a cab, you don’t need IRs or cabsims. They’re for your DI, FOH, or recording interface.

I don’t like multi effects units because 1) I’m easily bored/tired/distracted from interfacing with computers to do work because that’s what I do for work, and 2) they rarely have the effects I’m looking for - they may have a Big Muff copy, but is it a Russian Big Muff or is it the same patch used by guitar players using the same multi effects pedal?

 

[sawzalot]

I think actually you have it pretty straight. Your amp will always add whatever color the amp has to your sound. The amp/cab sims are for running either straight into the FOH board, for recording, or for getting amp color when using a FRFR (Full Range, Flat Response) powered speaker/cab onstage.