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I hate fourths

Whil57

Whil57

Aug 7, 2013
420
388
Long Island
#1
I dont know if its just me, but when i'm ask to learn a song, and the original artist teeters alot of fourths it drive me up the wall. To me it's a crappy sounding note. Play it against a guitarist bar chording, or have a keyboard in the band it turns to mush, or sounds wrong. I'm not talking Geddy Lee, because Lifeson plays a lot of sus chords, so in that context it works. Nor am i talking a passing tone in a walking line. To me, as a focus note or semi focus note ,it sounds like crap. Obviously, we sometimes try and look outside the box. Tired of playing root-5, yeah i get that. We only get twelve notes, and its easy to burn out that sweet 6th or 9th (2nd if you wish).
I really wonder how certain recordings get by without some of the recorder's notes not clashing. Sometimes i get it when the arrangement has sparse elements going, yet it still annoys me. Anyone else feel this way? Or am i a lone whacko. (dont answer that, i already know).
 
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#3
Whil57 said:
I dont know if its just me, but when i'm ask to learn a song, and the original artist teeters alot of fourths it drive me up the wall. To me it's a crappy sounding note. Play it against a guitarist bar chording, or have a keyboard in the band it turns to mush, or sounds wrong. I'm not talking Geddy Lee, because Lifeson plays a lot of sus chords, so in that context it works. Nor am i talking a passing tone in a walking line. To me, as a focus note or semi focus note ,it sounds like crap. Obviously, we sometimes try and look outside the box. Tired of playing root-5, yeah i get that. We only get twelve notes, and its easy to burn out that sweet 6th or 9th (2nd if you wish).
I really wonder how certain recordings get by without some of the recorder's notes not clashing. Sometimes i get it when the arrangement has sparse elements going, yet it still annoys me. Anyone else feel this way? Or am i a lone whacko. (dont answer that, i already know).
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Don't let it bug you, bro. Just think of it as an upside-down 5th. :cool:
 
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#5
Perfect 4ths can create dissonance in relation to major chords, because of the half step interval between the major 3rd and 4th. That's just basic music theory 101. The 4th is a very powerful interval and should be deployed with care, not willy-nilly.

Some composers avoid the dissonance between the major 3rd and perfect 4th by using the #4 instead, for a Lydian type of sound. If you are stuck for musical ideas, give that a try sometime!

An even easier approach is to omit the 4th and 7th and use the major pentatonic scale (1, 2, 3, 5, 6) when the guitar or piano is playing a major chord.

Or, when in doubt, play the root! ;)
 
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#7
Mushroo said:
Perfect 4ths can create dissonance in relation to major chords, because of the half step interval between the major 3rd and 4th. That's just basic music theory 101. The 4th is a very powerful interval and should be deployed with care, not willy-nilly.

Some composers avoid the dissonance between the major 3rd and perfect 4th by playing the #4 instead, for a Lydian type of sound. If you are stuck for musical ideas, give that a try sometime!

An even easier approach is to omit the 4th and 7th and use the major pentatonic scale (1, 2, 3, 5, 6) when the guitar or piano is playing a major chord.
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It's also a tritone away from the maj7.
 
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#9
It's funny-
And yet when a piece of music hums along moving in fourths, it sounds great.

But in this case, I agree with all the statements above. Fourths bug me too; they are kind of square sounding to me. I think sus chords can be overused and looking at the #4 is a nice trick
 
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#15
Mushroo said:
Perfect 4ths can create dissonance in relation to major chords, because of the half step interval between the major 3rd and 4th. That's just basic music theory 101. The 4th is a very powerful interval and should be deployed with care, not willy-nilly.

Some composers avoid the dissonance between the major 3rd and perfect 4th by using the #4 instead, for a Lydian type of sound. If you are stuck for musical ideas, give that a try sometime!

An even easier approach is to omit the 4th and 7th and use the major pentatonic scale (1, 2, 3, 5, 6) when the guitar or piano is playing a major chord.

Or, when in doubt, play the root! ;)
Click to expand...
Guess its just me, i would never drop the 7th when playing, just adjust the major to dominant if needed.
 
#16
DavC said:
one example i always like ...

Grand Funk - " Foot Stompin' Music "

i'll let you Google it ... i was there when it came out .. !
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listened to two versions, one studio and one live. Only might hear the fourth as a passing tone in the walking parts. Thats not what i was referring to. More along the line of Cake's version of I Will Survive, or some of Creedances stuff.
 
#19
Whil57 said:
I dont know if its just me, but when i'm ask to learn a song, and the original artist teeters alot of fourths it drive me up the wall. To me it's a crappy sounding note. Play it against a guitarist bar chording, or have a keyboard in the band it turns to mush, or sounds wrong. I'm not talking Geddy Lee, because Lifeson plays a lot of sus chords, so in that context it works. Nor am i talking a passing tone in a walking line. To me, as a focus note or semi focus note ,it sounds like crap. Obviously, we sometimes try and look outside the box. Tired of playing root-5, yeah i get that. We only get twelve notes, and its easy to burn out that sweet 6th or 9th (2nd if you wish).
I really wonder how certain recordings get by without some of the recorder's notes not clashing. Sometimes i get it when the arrangement has sparse elements going, yet it still annoys me. Anyone else feel this way? Or am i a lone whacko. (dont answer that, i already know).
Click to expand...

The tension from the 4th works well on "weak" beats, particularly beat 4, but not on strong beats.

Not sure what original artists/bass lines you're referring to, so I can't comment on whether I agree or if you're a "lone wacko" in that regard ;)
 
#20
Hey Folks...here's my $0.02!

I think the specific note we're discussing is both a blessing and a curse (I'm speaking specifically of the fourth note of the Ionian/Major Scale - "Fa" if you will). I find that the fourth is generally okay when using harmonic suspensions (notably the 4-3 suspension from Csus4 to C). However, when improvising (especially in a jazz context), it tends to be the one note you want to omit.

If there's one thing I learned from my haphazard year in a jazz program, it's that you avoid certain notes for a reason. In this case, it is because the fourth tends to class with other harmonic elements from the tonic major chord. And, because the tonic major chord is typically a place of consonance, you'll avoid that sort of tension more often than not!

When I think about harmony abstractly, it's common to see something like this:

Consonance - Dissonance/Tension - Resolution (back to Consonance)

As above, because the fourth degree creates dissonance (such as a tritone if you're playing against a Major Seventh chord), you can easily lose that abstractio and sense of forward motion.

Anywho, here's a decent article from Wikipedia on this very topic: Avoid note - Wikipedia

Best,
~Nick "Klaus" G.
 
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