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I hate high schoolers....

No. NO. NO. NO. Just NO.

Absolutely not, and here's why:

You have to start somewhere. The drivers that are 18 will be just as bad as those who are 16. It doesn't matter. It merely postpones the time they will begin to drive. Maturity has nothing to do with it. It's all about experience. A person who is 40 and is just starting to drive will most likely be just as bad at driving as a 16 year old. Age DOES NOT equal maturity. There are 8 year olds that I know that are fairly mature. I know 30 year olds who are very immature.

How about you just enact a law that says "anyone who has not already driven for 5 years should be expelled from using the roads until this generation dies".

Hmph.

You really need ask yourself what the law will achieve. Peace of mind? Less accidents? Fewer immature flicking offs on the road?

Definitely not. Idiots are idiots, REGARDLESS of age.

+1. Around here I find that the younger drivers who just got their license better than some of the more "experienced" drivers all because they are fresh and know the laws and didn't get into the whole "Montreal Driving" effect yet. Montreal drivers, where do I start:rollno: .
 
+1. Around here I find that the younger drivers who just got their license better than some of the more "experienced" drivers all because they are fresh and know the laws and didn't get into the whole "Montreal Driving" effect yet. Montreal drivers, where do I start:rollno: .

Exactly. They're not on autopilot or in a comfort zone, thus they are more attentive and alert. Not to mention, teenagers probably have the best damned reaction time of most age groups.
 
I would strongly disagree. Even though you're young and want to defend your right to drive, which you've been priviledged, you can't argue with facts.

AAA reports:

This analysis shows that between 1995 and 2004 crashes involving 15- to 17- year-old drivers claimed the lives of 30,917 people, of which 11,177 (36.2%) were those drivers themselves. However, the majority of fatalities in these crashes were people other than those drivers, and included 9,847 of their passengers, 7,477 occupants of vehicles operated by drivers 18 years of age or older, and 2,323 nonmotorists.

and...

Teenage drivers are 4 times more likely to be involved in an autobile accident.

After attending 5 funerals of young drivers in the last year and 5 students dying last week on their last day of school during their grad night, I am glad to see the law change and see more young people alive.
 
This analysis shows that between 1995 and 2004 crashes involving 15- to 17- year-old drivers claimed the lives of 30,917 people
Although that is true and tragically sad, it could just as easily say: between 1995 and 2004 crashes involving drivers who have had a liscense for less than one full year claimed the lives of 30,917 people
I don't think anyone really knows whether the issue is because of age, or expereince; but I find it hard to believe that it is exclusively an age thing.
 
I think because 4 high schoolers did something wrong and you say you hate all high schoolers is really stupid. It seems you acted in the exact same way that they did so you are no better than they are. Just because a few kids did something wrong doesnt mean all high schoolers are the same.
 
by reading your opening i would say that you must have dropped out prior to HS or maybe you just forgot how to spell altogether

Don't be so quick to judge. I graduated HS and got my BA in bizness fienanse. :D

Bassist, you're right. I've had some time to think about it and I'm glad nothing more happened. I should've been the better person and ignore them.
 
Those high school kids are definitely sitting around now telling their friends about how easily they pissed off some ******* today and how much fun it was. As far as they're concerned they won that encounter since they're not hurt at all and got exactly the kind of reaction they wanted out of you.

I know me and my friends would probably be doing that at least. This one time we were standing outside of a restaurant chain (Dagwoods) with a big window as it was closing and this guy came out and asked us to leave. I wanted to leave but my friends decided to stay and keep staring inside.

Eventually the guy got fed up, came to the door and started yelling at us saying that it was his last shift ever so he would just beat us up and that he didn't want to knock out a couple 16 year olds. Then my friend started to argue with him asking him stupid questions like "Is it ok if we stay standing here but turn around to face the other way?". This just made him more angry so he walked towards my friend, realised that my friend was about a head taller than him so then he went to my other friend and pushed him really angrily then chased us away.

We spent the next week laughing about it and telling our other friends. And we decided that we won because we got a really good reaction out of him and no consequences whatsoever except that we can't go to Dagwoods late at night (the other guy who was there doesn't like us either).

(I hope this makes sense)
 
I would strongly disagree. Even though you're young and want to defend your right to drive, which you've been priviledged, you can't argue with facts.

AAA reports:

This analysis shows that between 1995 and 2004 crashes involving 15- to 17- year-old drivers claimed the lives of 30,917 people, of which 11,177 (36.2%) were those drivers themselves. However, the majority of fatalities in these crashes were people other than those drivers, and included 9,847 of their passengers, 7,477 occupants of vehicles operated by drivers 18 years of age or older, and 2,323 nonmotorists.

and...

Teenage drivers are 4 times more likely to be involved in an autobile accident.

After attending 5 funerals of young drivers in the last year and 5 students dying last week on their last day of school during their grad night, I am glad to see the law change and see more young people alive.

The facts exist because they are conducted in order to isolate a certain age group.

If the status quo were to change, the set of statistics would change.

I am not downplaying their deaths, which are tragic, but I am fighting for the freedom of my fellow comrades. If you only allow 18 year olds to drive, then what's next? Studies will be conducted showing that people 18-21 are far more likely to cause accidents than any other age group. Why? A lack of experience.

Why is it a privilege for 16 year olds to drive whereas it's a right for an 18 year old to drive?
 
16-18 or 70 year olds...in every age group...their are stupid drivers! Heck... My wife isn't that great...no accidents...but hold on and don't care (:help: hope these air bags work :help: ) and she's 33yrs old.

Basically HS kids need to just...

PULL UP THEIR PANTS....

and remember that...

THE DRIVERS SEAT IS NOT A RECLINER !

(when you gotta sit up to take a turn...you're leaning too far back)
 
Nobody has a right to drive. That's a driver's permit question. I should have put the word "right" in quotations. Everyone over the age of 16 has the privelege, but nobody has a right.

I believe the high accident rates are due to lack of experience and responsibility. Unfortunately, the permit process lies heavily in the parent's lap and if they don't make sure their child drives, they are putting everyone else at risk. Currently, it's 50 hours of driving experience during the day and 10 hours at night over a 6 month period. I spent the last 5 years driving that much during a week, as do most commuters. To think that a person would fully grasp everything about driving with that little experience is short sighted.

As far as responsibility, any older person can look back to when they were 16 or 19 and recall that they weren't as responsible as they are now. That's not an absolute, but that's a massive majority. 45% of the time that teenage drivers are killed, they have a fellow teen in the car. Most of those times, they illegally have someone in the car. The older I get, the more cocky I realize I was when I was younger. "I have faster reaction times.", "I raced 500 horsepower muscle cars since I was 14.", "I have a higher tolerance than most people." and "I'm a better driver in the rain." are all excuses that I have said and heard. They are all untrue. Well I did race since I was 14, which gave me an appreciation for a car's capabilities, but it wasn't until I was older when I realized my "showing off" in my 67 Malibu could have killed someone or myself.

I'm not all grumpy and I don't hate high school drivers. I have just experienced way too many close calls and funerals to support a 16 year old controlling a 2500 pound vehicle. I can't ignore facts. A 21 year old would be much better behind the wheel starting out than a 15 1/2 year old. That's 5 1/2 years more of watching others drive and learning as well as maturing. My parents made sure I had about 500 hours of driving experience before I went in to take my test. By the time I took my test, they at least knew that I had the experience, but I did not have the maturity. It's not that teenage drivers are the major contributors to accidents, but they are disproportionately the cause of accidents due to their percentage. 7% of drivers are teens, 14% of fatalities are teens and 20% of accidents are caused by teens. Teens have the lowest rate for wearing seatbelts. Car crashes are the number one killer of 16 year olds. The awareness and maturity of an 18 year old is different than a 16 year old. Even at 18, nobody is fully mature. It was debated to push it back as far as 21. I don't see why so many people have a problem with it. They can use public transportation. I did. I got to my destination alive and that's all that counts.

I don't hate teen drivers, I just want to see them alive.
 
I'm in high school too.

Generally I find that adults aren't perfect either. Maybe the high schoolers SEEM that way to most people just because they're that age.

I hate having to go into a store and getting WATCHED just because of my age. I'm considered a delinquent before I say a word to them.

Those are just 4 idiots. Don't generalize and say that high school people are horrible. It isn't true. (Plenty of ADULTS are just as bad).

Very true. Some old ladies on the road to Houston the other day were *awful*! They drove really slow in the pickup with a trailer containing some packaged floor tiles, and wouldn't get over and let anyone pass. Nothing we can do. So the road opens up with more lanes, and we finally get around them. We get to a multi-lane intersection with a turning lane, and Grandma asks, sweetly, "I need to turn left, and I'm in the wrong lane. May I please go in front of you for just a second, so I can get to the turn lane?"

My husband was a gentleman and let her.

She LIED!!! She got right in front of us and made us go 30 mph all the way into the city!!!

Meemaw LIED on PURPOSE!

High school kids don't have the market cornered on jerkiness. People of all ages can be horrid, nasty people.

I remember getting followed around in stores when I was in high school. You can't browse, or compare prices, when you're 16. Every store employee thinks you're there to steal.

Cherie
 
Nobody has a right to drive. That's a driver's permit question. I should have put the word "right" in quotations. Everyone over the age of 16 has the privelege, but nobody has a right.

I believe the high accident rates are due to lack of experience and responsibility. Unfortunately, the permit process lies heavily in the parent's lap and if they don't make sure their child drives, they are putting everyone else at risk. Currently, it's 50 hours of driving experience during the day and 10 hours at night over a 6 month period. I spent the last 5 years driving that much during a week, as do most commuters. To think that a person would fully grasp everything about driving with that little experience is short sighted.

As far as responsibility, any older person can look back to when they were 16 or 19 and recall that they weren't as responsible as they are now. That's not an absolute, but that's a massive majority. 45% of the time that teenage drivers are killed, they have a fellow teen in the car. Most of those times, they illegally have someone in the car. The older I get, the more cocky I realize I was when I was younger. "I have faster reaction times.", "I raced 500 horsepower muscle cars since I was 14.", "I have a higher tolerance than most people." and "I'm a better driver in the rain." are all excuses that I have said and heard. They are all untrue. Well I did race since I was 14, which gave me an appreciation for a car's capabilities, but it wasn't until I was older when I realized my "showing off" in my 67 Malibu could have killed someone or myself.

I'm not all grumpy and I don't hate high school drivers. I have just experienced way too many close calls and funerals to support a 16 year old controlling a 2500 pound vehicle. I can't ignore facts. A 21 year old would be much better behind the wheel starting out than a 15 1/2 year old. That's 5 1/2 years more of watching others drive and learning as well as maturing. My parents made sure I had about 500 hours of driving experience before I went in to take my test. By the time I took my test, they at least knew that I had the experience, but I did not have the maturity. It's not that teenage drivers are the major contributors to accidents, but they are disproportionately the cause of accidents due to their percentage. 7% of drivers are teens, 14% of fatalities are teens and 20% of accidents are caused by teens. Teens have the lowest rate for wearing seatbelts. Car crashes are the number one killer of 16 year olds. The awareness and maturity of an 18 year old is different than a 16 year old. Even at 18, nobody is fully mature. It was debated to push it back as far as 21. I don't see why so many people have a problem with it. They can use public transportation. I did. I got to my destination alive and that's all that counts.

I don't hate teen drivers, I just want to see them alive.

You said that a lack of experience and responsibility is what causes the accidents. You also said that 50 hours is not nearly enough to learn how to drive. The fact is that 50 hours is MORE than enough to learn how to drive. You can only gain experience by driving, which means that you have to get on the road more often to prevent accidents. It's a paradox, but unfortunately that's the only way to prevent accidents.

The specific time in human development or the date of the year in which the experience of driving is obtained is irrelevant. The fact is that the time will inevitably come when inexperienced drivers hit the road. Thus, that bill will have a minute, if any, improvement over the status quo.

You have to remember, kids my age want to start having jobs and make money. If you can drop out of high school, you should be able to have a car in order to go to work.
 
I appreciate your honesty and passion. I honestly do. I think you've made fine points, but I disagree.

Do you honestly think that 50 hours is enough? Most commuters probably spend 30 hours driving a week. So to break that down...a driver with a permit is on the road for about 2 hrs. a week for 26 weeks. A commuter is on the road for about 15.5 times more than a permit driver. To say a 16 year old new driver is anywhere near as prepared for the road as a daily commuter is very ambitious at best.

It's not an irrelevant statement that a 21 year old is a much more responsible human being than a 16 year old. It's just a fact of life. You grow older, you grow wiser. You've had more time to take in information. The younger generation runs off passion and emotion. The older generation runs off of wisdom and rationality. The younger generation thinks the older generation is irrational and unwise and the older generation knows that the young are irrational and unwise, but they rely on their passion. It's been that way forever.

My solution would be to not only push back the driving age, but require more driver's training as well as hours driven while on a permit. Permit drivers should have to drive for a year with their parents or someone 25 or older for 300 hours. This would make them much better drivers than they are with the current process. I think the law that states that a driver cannot drive with anyone under the age of 25 for the first year is splendid. However, it needs to be enforced and regulated to prevent more deaths. I had a student in my program who was 16 and decided to take 4 friends in his car to show off his new license. His second day of driving, he T-boned a van at 50mph in a parking lot. The van was filled with an entire family. He put 7 people in the hospital. Now he doesn't get his license back until he is 21. He had his privilege taken away and rightly so. If you're 70 and you do the same thing, you should have your license yanked. I'm all for equality.

I work with 200 high school students. 90% of them don't know who they are, let alone what they want. I had 2 jobs when I was 14 and I didn't have a car. My dad had a job and no car. My grandpa had a job and no car. How did we all do it? Countless generations before our generation seemed to all manage quite fine. The difference is that the current generation thinks everyone else should cater to them. The trend that we've seen is that three generations ago, people thought that the best thing to do was to work for their grandchildren. In the next generation, people worked for their children. Then the next generation, the baby boomers worked for themselves. Then our generation expected others to work for us. There seems to be this sort of attitude that we should halt the world for the youth. I worked my rear end off without a car to get enough money to buy a car. I always thought it was kinda weird that people who didn't work a day in their life suddenly showed up to school in a car that their parents had bought them.
 
Honestly I just like living my highschool years to the fullest. I don't care if people think I'm an idiot, because they're probably right.

Destroying someones property for no reason is living to the fullest? I don't even care that you did that, my problem with that thread was that you put life of others in serious danger by speeding around and chasing. This kind of crap should be punished by you taking a bus for rest of your life.

OT: Most kids are ok, but those who stand out, do stand out much more then a-hole adults. IMO


PS: I don't think distracting a driver and other drivers on a road is much of "fun". This kind of crap causes accidents and death. I still see this behavior in adults when i am a designated driver for my friends. All you guys defending this crap, do you realize how hard it is to drive when someone is jumping around in a car? If you think it's safe, then take your driver license and turn them in. I don't want you on the road.
 
sounds like they were just having a good time and you were the one that made it confrontational.

you're at fault, not them.

We'll see if you think the same when god forbid, and i hope it never happens to you, your cousin (or someone you love) gets murder by one of these idiots in a car...

I really hope it will never happen to anyone you know, but for me, that's what changed my opinion.