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I hate musicians!

#41
Roy, I appreciate the thought. If we were anywhere near Nashville he'd have been fired the first night.

At this point we're just going to get through the next week and try and manage his laziness. I just bought a metronome, if I have to spoon feed him the tempos and treat him like a child then so be it.

I'm not too worried about hurting our rep, we have a good relationship with all these venues, and the rest of the band is impressive/distracting enough to divert the attention away. It's just frustrating, especially since I already have plenty on my plate.
 
#43
Bummer. Just keep professional and finish the tour. You'll be back in no time and you never have to work with him again.

The thing that gets me is he should know that he is difficult to work with and be working extra hard on those things. It sounds like you will never refer him to anyone and I'm sure there is a line of people that he has done this to. That's why I like other musicians to vouch for people. Craigslist can be a nightmare.
 
#45
FenderBassist said:
You know what? MysticMichael is right. He has a clearer perspective than I do on your situation. I would consider his words carefully.
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+1000

Way to go MM! Perfect reply.

Life happens, deal with it and move on.

IMO, ranting about things that are out of your control is the way to madness. Especially the "hate" part. Anger and logic usually don't go hand-in-hand. Anger management?

Coming up with reasonable alternatives/solutions and keeping a positive attitude go along way towards keeping your project going and keeping your own mental and physical health on an even keel for long term survival.
 
#46
Mousekillaz said:
If you think that being under the influence at work is acceptable in any circumstance, you are delusional. There are good reasons why employers show you the door in a hot second if your under the influence.
Personally I will never work with anyone who uses dope or drinks excessively, my time is more valuable to me, than are their bad habits.
For the OP, you might be better off cutting your loses, rather than have his lifestyle choices ruin your groups working reputation and your future finding decent engagements.
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+1. I have a no tolerance drug policy and playing with drunks isn't much better. I find drummers generally to be laid back with good work ethics, it is usually the guitar players I have a problem with about getting drunk on stage. On an unrelated note, Mousekillaz it is awesome you are Anacortes. I am originally from there and lived there until I was 7 and then moved to Oak Harbor.
 
#47
Stumbo said:
IMO, ranting about things that are out of your control is the way to madness. Especially the "hate" part. Anger and logic usually don't go hand-in-hand. Anger management?
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I agree, that's why I ranted about it here rather than blowing up on stage or at the band cabin. I know I'm stuck with the guy for the time being, but it helps to vent a little bit to others who can "feel my pain" as it were.
 
#49
I have met a couple of pothead musicians who were productive, so I'm not saying they don't exist, but 90% of the the avid pot smoking people I know are exactly as the OP described. Can talk an excellent game, yet when it comes down to it, wind up producing garbage. And they all think pot makes them better at what they do.

There are few things that I'm hard headed about, but I have enough experience with myself and others to know that pot does not make anyone better at what they do. Smoking a handful of times may open someone's mind a bit, but not any more than a trip to another country or any kind of adventure or healthy mind opening experience would.

It's a little frightening to me how so many people are getting "OK" with smoking pot, and completely believing that it's harmless. And unfortunately it often takes years before the ill effects take their toll. Mentally, socially, spiritually, emotionally, and physically. Smoking pot is handing over our power, our sensibilities, our clear thinking, healthy minds - to a substance. An incredibly powerful one. It distorts reality. I don't want to give my power away to anything anymore.

And I'll never believe that someone stoned has any kind of edge over someone who's not.
 
#52
fenderphil said:
And yet again, another thread destroyed by people bashing something other than the original topic.
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What are you talking about. This thread was about how his drummer can't stay sober enough to do his job. The rush tunes show he has the talent, but isn't pro enough to play well on the tunes he doesn't like. The drug use is part of the unprofessionalism. Did I miss something or do you have your own axe to grind.
 
#55
lowfreq33 said:
Yeah, he just has that general stoner "it's cool man" mentality. That's the problem with weed, it makes a lot of people content with mediocrity.
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Haha that reminded me of a quote from Randy Marsh (of South Park) when he was explaining drugs to Stan, smoking weed makes it okay to do nothing.

Also, I think some clarification needs to be said here, nobody said smoking weed/using drugs makes your playing better, you'd be a fool to think that. We are saying the weed is not the problem for him and many others being lazy, it is a drug addicts excuse to blame other people/things.

All of you freaking out about drugs in the work place should give your head a shake, I bet you 7/10 of your employee/co-workers use caffeine profusely throughout the day. Caffeine is more addictive and more damaging than marijuana any day of the week. How many of you who don't tolerate drugs always hammer back a red bull before you hit the stage. Different stroke for different folks.

Now get down off your high horse and help me onto mine! haha :D
 
#56
Am I going crazy or are you equating drinking a coffee with rolling smoke? Now I could care less what my musicians do on their free time, but anyone who shows up stoned, or gets drunk during the gig is gone. Or, if I am hired by guys who roll smoke, I won't take their gigs anymore. That is my personal decision. Of course the problem, is not truly the drug use, it is the immaturity that underlies it. The drugs take away the inhibitions, and then all their dbagness comes out. Maybe some people like yourself can handle it and still act like an adult, but you are the exception. I am sick of guys yelling random crap into the mic, forgetting arrangements, cussing out patrons or other stuff because they can't handle it.
 
#57
fenderphil said:
its not the pot causing those problems..

the dude doesent have the skills to hold up his end of the bargain. basically unfamiliar with your setlist and winging it.

I'd dock his pay and see if he shapes up any quicker.
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I think docking his pay was a great suggestion unless he shaped up and started delivering on what he promised in the first place.

Did you try implementing this? I did not see any response to this advice.
 
#58
nixdad said:
I think docking his pay was a great suggestion unless he shaped up and started delivering on what he promised in the first place.

Did you try implementing this? I did not see any response to this advice.
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You know, I'd like to dock his pay, but I have sort of a personal standard of how I treat people who are working for me. It's kind of a "kill them with kindness" type of thing. People might be able to come up with a few very petty things to say about working for me, but they'll never be able to say I don't deliver on my promises.

As for the rest of the shows, I bought a metronome yesterday, and I have all the tempos written down. It made a big difference last night. There were a couple of songs that he had been doing 30 bpm too fast. Ridiculous.
 
#59
Lowfreq33 -
There's no doubt you're a good guy and watching out for everyone concerned. If the metronome solves the problem, so be it.

The thing to keep in mind here is that he has not/is not fulfilling his commitment to the band, either musically or professionally. He lied to you guys about being prepared, which is what got him the gig in the first place. This is a choice that he has made/is making, along with his behavior. You said it yourself that he has put the band in jeopardy. You may not lose any gigs on this tour, but will you be hired again in the future if the band sounds substandard?

If you expect to see a change in his behavior, there must be consequences. If there are no consequences, he has no motivation at all to change his behavior. Continuing to reward him at 100% means that you're condoning his behavior. Curbing his pay is a consequence to him not delivering as promised.

If you choose to do this, in all fairness it's a good idea to let him know up front. Let him know what your expectations are, when you expect him to be up to speed, and what the consequences will be if he chooses to not comply. He's already been playing with the band, so he should not need much time to get his act together as far as the drumming goes (knowing ques, accents, etc.) He'll either make the decision to get with the program or not, thus making the decision if he should be docked. He'll be making the choice, and you'll simply be reenforcing his choices (as said by Lou Holtz.)

Either way, good luck. He's lucky to be on tour with you guys.
 
#60
Read through the three pages. Interesting. Hind sight is 20/20 so I guess it would have been good to get some referral as to his performance and professionalism. You probably could have found a starving drummer on a drummer forum who would have traveled for that gig. On your last night when you know he's lighting up, you could always call up the cops . Tell the dispatcher you smell marijuana in room ### at the <motel/hotel> on <street number and name>. They'll pay a visit. Hopefully, it would turn into a misdemeanor marijuana possension arrest which would drain some of his earnings. Laissez les bon temps roulez.
 

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