i hate sound guys

[Sendaii]

As an amateur/hobbyist sound guy, trust me when I say that a beer or a small tip and a smile goes a long way. I will happily and gladly set up your sound any way you want it (provided that I or you have the gear, we have the time and it sounds good to the paying audience) if you aren't a jerk who demands stuff. If you are, I might just have to hit the suck button, as Kenner said

 

[melarson]

For whatever reason soundmen for the most part don't seem to want to hear from bassists, your handed a DI and that's about it. While the guitar player is swooned over, asked if the 57 is ok, which cab do you want miked, is there particular speaker you want the mike in front of, and how is the mike placement ? etc. etc. I don't tolerate it. The bass in our group is 1/3 the sound, on most gigs we hire in the sound and if it is someone we have not worked with in the past I make my needs CLEAR. If I am not happy their pay will be adjusted. I know exactly what I want I make sure I get it.

How come I can't hear the guitar over your bass during the GUITAR solo? I guess that's because you "wouldn't tolerate it". What gives you the right to adjust the sound man's pay?

I was a sound man first. I started to play bass because my 10 and 12 year olds were learning drums and guitar. You can't have a band with out a bass, right? That being said IMO the bass is not a front and center instrument, solos yes, featured in a song or two absolutely. But front and center every song, like that youtube video, the "average person" won't like the sound. They might not know why, but they just won't like it. I know some of you may want to have a unique "tone", but if the average joe doesn't like it things may not work out too well for you. For those who "sell out" and let the sound man do his job, you'll probably end up with more gigs and more money in your pocket. It is definitely a 2 way street, you know your gear better than the sound guy does, but to absolutely put your foot down is just wrong on so many levels. I just don't understand the egos and immaturity of some of these posts!

 

[JimmyM]

it isn't ego to want the sound done the way you want it. but let's assume that it IS ego...so what? they're paying the soundman and they have every right to want the sound the way they want it. and while i will agree that adjusting someone's pay on the spot is a little off, never hiring them again isn't.

also, if the guitar wasn't up loud enough in the solo, why is it the bass player's fault? he's not running sound.

here's a sad fact of life...while the soundman has a hugely important job, the soundman isn't paying the bills, and nobody in that crowd paid to see the soundman. i've got people i have to answer to, and so does the soundman.

 

[McHack]

I believe you need a larger statistical sampling before you can make any sort of general statement about all sound guys.

+1

 

[engedi1]

it isn't ego to want the sound done the way you want it. but let's assume that it IS ego...so what? they're paying the soundman and they have every right to want the sound the way they want it. and while i will agree that adjusting someone's pay on the spot is a little off, never hiring them again isn't.

also, if the guitar wasn't up loud enough in the solo, why is it the bass player's fault? he's not running sound.

here's a sad fact of life...while the soundman has a hugely important job, the soundman isn't paying the bills, and nobody in that crowd paid to see the soundman. i've got people i have to answer to, and so does the soundman.

+1. He with the gold, makes the rules....

Ego goes both ways! Alot of sound guys are exceedingly overprotective of their position and take any suggestion as a personal insult. I had a friend who was playing a very famous club here in Nashville (solo acoustic guitar and solo voice) who simply asked the soundperson if she wouldn't mind equing his guitar in the monitor a little differently. Her response was to completely cut his vocals out of the monitor right as he started his performance. This is probably the most extreme example of pettiness I have ever heard of a soundman, and maybe my friend wasn't as tactful as he said he was, but you have to very careful.
$10,000 bass+ $10,000 amp+ pissed off soundperson= no bass in the audience.

 

[fokof]

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624742

 

[BigMac5]

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624742

:scowl:

 

[Flipper43]

Man! This was my source of enjoyment.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not bashing sound guys. i'm stating that I don't like a soundman overruling me on my own gigs, and to stand up for yourselves against soundmen who do that.

 

[John Wentzien]

I usually get a better sound out front WITH a sound guy...better than trying to do it from on-stage (usually)
Almost always DI pre EQ....
Have used a mic to good affect..If that's the sound guy's thing..

 

[melarson]

also, if the guitar wasn't up loud enough in the solo, why is it the bass player's fault? he's not running sound.

If you badger the guy to get the sound the way you like it, you just might get it. If you are so stuck on your bass (or any part of the band) the way you want it that may be all that's heard. Maybe the sound man was making a point. I would never sabotage someone, but if they insist on something, despite my reasoning, they will get it even to their detriment. Who wants to work with anyone who is threatening their pay?

The point is what "you want" may not work for the venue (location and/or equipment).

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

who doesn't?

 

[JimmyM]

If you badger the guy to get the sound the way you like it, you just might get it. If you are so stuck on your bass (or any part of the band) the way you want it that may be all that's heard. Maybe the sound man was making a point. I would never sabotage someone, but if they insist on something, despite my reasoning, they will get it even to their detriment. Who wants to work with anyone who is threatening their pay?

people are their own worst enemy, and sometimes you have to let them be their worst enemy. soundmen should never have that problem with me, though...yes, i want my sound correct as i see it, but i'd never sabotage a soundman. if i didn't think my way was the best way for everyone in my band, I wouldn't do it.

 

[walterw]

If I am not happy their pay will be adjusted.

that's a good way to ensure that once word of this policy gets out, the soundmen who are good enough to make it all work put your band on their "sorry, i'm booked that night" lists not hiring somebody again is very different from reneging on an agreement!

I know exactly what I want I make sure I get it.

How come I can't hear the guitar over your bass during the GUITAR solo? I guess that's because you "wouldn't tolerate it".

well, i bet it's because the recording was taken on the bass player's side of the stage. it was probably the exact opposite in front of the guitar player.

that's slightly OT, even though it does point out one problem of being Too Goddamn Loud: the audience ends up getting an unbalanced version of your band.

back on-topic, if i were mixing i would likely be screaming at you to turn it down (and maybe add a little low end to it), but if that raging entwistle bass vibe was part of the band's sound, who the f**k am i to make you change it?

 

[Hawkeye]

Our band played a new small club (Hard Luck Bar) in Toronto this week, and they had some nice Yorkville subs in the system. The soundman was kind enough to ask "How do you like to go into the system"? I almost fell over. Usually I'm handed some ratty old passive DI with no explanation.

I told him that my amp has a nice clean DI out (Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 6.0) and would he mind using that? "Cool", he said "I'll go get a cable".

I set the DI for Pre-out, not post. It was only a 1/2 hr set and so I decided to keep it simple. I was using my ShuttleMAX and GB Neox 112t cab and was keeping it cruising low in the mix. During soundcheck, the soundguy seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the bass in the subs though, and from time to time it completely overloaded everything with low end.

After sound check he said he was having some trouble with the amount of bass coming out of my passive Reverend 5L, too much low end. I told him it was passive and that I was giving him a Pre-out and not through the tone controls of the amp. I was even using the parallel switch which had the least amount of bass output. Suddenly I realized that the passive tone control on my bass was set about half way down, rolling off the treble (my preferred tone with the Reverend). I told him that I would turn it back up for the set and he could see if that helped.

Lo and behold, the soundguy got a handle on things and the gigantic boominess was gone. I turned up my amp on stage because I couldn't hear myself over the guitar amps but only enough so that I could hear.

Lesson learned: FLAT is the best place to Start. Remember to zero out, not just your amp EQ's, but also your bass EQ's as a starting place.

We worked together to sort out the problem and the result was a good mix and a good set. Everything was congenial and he remarked afterward how my turning off of the passive roll-off really helped. No drama, good experience.

Oh yeah, turns out he was a bass player.

 

[JimmyM]

that sounds like a really cool soundguy. there are plenty of them out there. lots of soundguys love the challenge of new setups and different ways of doing things. and if a soundman works with me and shows me he's on my side, i'm more than happy to cooperate.

but if they walk up to me and start telling me how it's going to be done and try to cut me off at the knees, or if they try to hoodwink me, that's where i have a problem. a BIG problem.

 

[engedi1]

I


Lo and behold, the soundguy got a handle on things and the gigantic boominess was gone. I turned up my amp on stage because I couldn't hear myself over the guitar amps but only enough so that I could hear.

Lesson learned: FLAT is the best place to Start. Remember to zero out, not just your amp EQ's, but also your bass EQ's as a starting place.

We worked together to sort out the problem and the result was a good mix and a good set. Everything was congenial and he remarked afterward how my turning off of the passive roll-off really helped. No drama, good experience.

Oh yeah, turns out he was a bass player.

Great story. It highlight how you need a bright, clean tone, with plenty of midrange live even if you wouldn't normally prefer that in the practice room.

 

[JimmyM]

Great story. It highlight how you need a bright, clean tone, with plenty of midrange live even if you wouldn't normally prefer that in the practice room.

weeeeeeelll, i wouldn't go THAT far. heard a lot of guys with dark dirty tones that sound awesome, too. but there is a difference between a good dark dirty tone and a mud tone, so i do agree that mids are important.

 

[engedi1]

weeeeeeelll, i wouldn't go THAT far. heard a lot of guys with dark dirty tones that sound awesome, too. but there is a difference between a good dark dirty tone and a mud tone, so i do agree that mids are important.

I should have phrased it better...Dark and dirty can be beautiful, I play with flats mostly myself! But I do think that a huge, bass-heavy tone usually doesn't fly live. I have much fewer issues with sound guys when I turn down the bass knob-once I do that, they don't seem to care as much about the volume knob. Sounds thin and whiny to me on stage, sounds huge in the crowd.

 

[Marcus Willett]

Well, I.....nah....