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I have a problem with cover/tribute bands.
- Thread starter T-Forty
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First off, I think you're reading way too much into what "people" are looking for when they seek out live bands. I think people who also happen to be musicians or who are "new musicphiles" may be seeking what you and others are describing ("original" music), but as for what "people" (in general) are seeking - I believe their seeking entertainment.
Speculation on the subtext of what qualifies as entertainment for "people" is nothing more than projecting your own ideas about bands and music onto the population in general. You are substituting "I" for "people" and then making an argument for what you want out of a band.
...and your point is?
I assume that some people are like me and some people are not. You seem to assume that nearly everyone is like you, and those who are not are mistaken and simply need to be taught to see things the "proper" way(your way). Not everyone goes to see live bands simply to "shake their butts."
For example, I participate in a music scene that has hundreds of people at every show for multitudes of different bands (local, regional, and national), and I guarantee a cover band wouldn't fly at one of these shows for many of the reasons mentioned. So don't tell me I'm "reading too much into" what people want, because I'm not interested in what MOST people want... I'm interested in what people with interests similar to my own want. For some people it's about the creation of the art, the need to try and add something of worth to the musical tapestry, and the live show is a vehicle to express the art to others, and in that environment a cover band would serve no purpose... they would be showcasing someone else's art, someone else's attempt.
That's not to say cover bands aren't talented, or that they're not artists, or they're in any way LESSER than an originals bands. They're just different.
I'm not sure why, but you seem to have taken this rather personally. My point has been described at length. Neither "type" of band is bettor or worse that the other. I agree that some people want this and some people want that - but the blanket statements made in this thread regarding the virtues or lack thereof of any type of band have been gross over-generalizations based on little more than personal opinion.
I've seen the arguments you've put forth and commented on the points that I've not agreed with. I no more think that everyone should think like I do as I think that everyone should think like you do.
I've said very clearly that I don't think anyone here, you or I included, can say we know what people want out of a band.
I've explained how people seeing a cover band could very easily find that experience to be exactly what they want and how other people may find that to be unappealing - for whatever reasons they, as people, may choose.
But the idea that the OP and others who've agreed with the OP have been espousing is, in my opinion, offensive, and on it's face, utterly incorrect.
Now if you choose to agree with the OP's sentiments and feel you've made a strong case in support of what he posted (that musicians who play in cover bands are worthless and should write their own music), what I think should have little or know impact on you whatsoever.
Just a side note - knarleybass is the bassist for Dread Zeppelin. I think he knows of which he speaks.
As for this thread. . .
Can we do "Picks vs Fingers" next? Or maybe "Coffee table vs Beater basses"?
I see what you are getting at, but, IMHO alot of people treat cover bands as live "radio's" as a backdrop to their night out. They dont think deeply about it, they either like a song or they dont. And, then there are lots of people that like the original scene.
Ive done both...most of my 23 years of playing was done in originals bands. I write my own music (see myspace link below
) and I love it. But I am in a classic rock cover band too. And I love that. I am 38 now and I am not chasing a record contract or interested in playing to small crowds that dont know you like I did when I was younger. I met a great bunch of people (who are good musicians as well) and I am having alot of fun.Would I ever play my original stuff out if given the chance? You bet. But much like every thing else, there are no black and white answers to this argument.
Let's see if I can muster a semi-serious response.
I'm 31 years old. That is important to remember.
In my college years I played in two bands that got signed to fairly well known indie labels and put out records. I even left school for a semester for a tour with one of them - a ska/punk outfit. The other (more of an indie/soul vibe) was named best new Bay Area band (and best band in the Daily Californian - the UC Berkeley paper) and attracted serious major label consideration before we broke up. Playing music was my entire life. And you know what? Both of those bands played covers. None of us even gave it a second thought. It was, "hey, we all love this song, let's play it." Didn't make me feel like a sell out or a "trained monkey" in any way shape or form.
A couple aborted projects after college and I became primarily a bedroom player in my mid 20's. Then a few years back I decided I just wanted to play music. I put in some time to improve (honestly I was always more of a songwriter than a musician and a good singer while just a decent bassist) and I have become a pretty good player IMO. Then I said I would explore any opportunities that came my way. And I did. I played with a LOT of people.
Here's what I found out. The best and most talented people my age are in cover bands. They've got steady lives (and often families) and just can't invest the time and effort to try and get a new originals project off the ground, especially when they have no notions of "making it" as a musician. They want to have fun and get paid. And I get that. At a certain point, you can't practice 3 nights a week and load gear in and out while playing a 30 minute set for little to no money.
Which isn't to say I haven't found originals bands to work with. I play in a trio with a drummer and a female singer/songwriter/pianist, I semi-regularly play with a hip-hop collective and I used to play with a local reggae band. My most recent project (sort of dub meets live electronica) fell apart which was really disappointing but a guitar player and I are trying to do a fretless/acoustic guitar and vocals project just to play at coffee shops and maybe record. But in all of them, the idea was not to take any of it too seriously and just have fun, same as in the cover bands.
The point is that this seems more like an argument between young and old than anything else. For all of those adamant that originals bands are the only thing that really matter, just wait a few years. Assuming you don't get signed and your life moves on, you may well find yourself looking for an outlet to play bass and have fun. Suddenly playing covers will make a lot more sense.
I'm 31 years old. That is important to remember.
In my college years I played in two bands that got signed to fairly well known indie labels and put out records. I even left school for a semester for a tour with one of them - a ska/punk outfit. The other (more of an indie/soul vibe) was named best new Bay Area band (and best band in the Daily Californian - the UC Berkeley paper) and attracted serious major label consideration before we broke up. Playing music was my entire life. And you know what? Both of those bands played covers. None of us even gave it a second thought. It was, "hey, we all love this song, let's play it." Didn't make me feel like a sell out or a "trained monkey" in any way shape or form.
A couple aborted projects after college and I became primarily a bedroom player in my mid 20's. Then a few years back I decided I just wanted to play music. I put in some time to improve (honestly I was always more of a songwriter than a musician and a good singer while just a decent bassist) and I have become a pretty good player IMO. Then I said I would explore any opportunities that came my way. And I did. I played with a LOT of people.
Here's what I found out. The best and most talented people my age are in cover bands. They've got steady lives (and often families) and just can't invest the time and effort to try and get a new originals project off the ground, especially when they have no notions of "making it" as a musician. They want to have fun and get paid. And I get that. At a certain point, you can't practice 3 nights a week and load gear in and out while playing a 30 minute set for little to no money.
Which isn't to say I haven't found originals bands to work with. I play in a trio with a drummer and a female singer/songwriter/pianist, I semi-regularly play with a hip-hop collective and I used to play with a local reggae band. My most recent project (sort of dub meets live electronica) fell apart which was really disappointing but a guitar player and I are trying to do a fretless/acoustic guitar and vocals project just to play at coffee shops and maybe record. But in all of them, the idea was not to take any of it too seriously and just have fun, same as in the cover bands.
The point is that this seems more like an argument between young and old than anything else. For all of those adamant that originals bands are the only thing that really matter, just wait a few years. Assuming you don't get signed and your life moves on, you may well find yourself looking for an outlet to play bass and have fun. Suddenly playing covers will make a lot more sense.
Easy, man... those comments are indeed hyperbole and were made in direct response the the onslaught of hyperbole the went before.
I too am in a band filled with artists (writers, sculptors, musicians, photographers, etc...) - and we all craft our own parts to all songs - as well as co-write just about everything we do - and we've been together for over 7 years now (and some of the players I've played with consistently for over 15 years) and have no intention of splitting up either. So I know full well that my hyperbole is what it is. I also know that playing covers doesn't diminish any of our artistic value nor do cover bands (which I, and many of my esteemed artist cohorts also play in) consist of non-artists and wannabe's.
If you've followed this thread from the onset and still feel I am being unreasonable, let me know and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
That is odd to have a 5-1 ratio of cover bands. Are you exaggerating?
Not to bust your balls, but guitarists are easy to find. Maybe the problem is that to bring in someone else, you have to give up some autonomy and let them in creatively.
Sorry you have a problem, however I refuse to let your problem affect me. I'll go right on playing (and even enjoying !) cover tunes.
So do you feel any better?
...umm my cover band is "worth" between $450 - $1000 per night.
No thanks, I'll let you do that for me.
One last side note to this conversation. I've always been used to being a primary songwriter in originals bands. But when I started seriously playing again in my late 20's I found several originals projects that wanted to give me less freedom than cover bands I'd been in.
Currently I play with a very talented young woman who had songs written when I was recommended to her so I didn't have any real input, but was given free reign to play whatever I wanted on bass. I don't mind that at all (though lately we've been writing together a lot more) but I was also briefly in an indie rock band where I was told what to play. And there's a reason I said briefly - playing originals for little or no money while basically playing someone else's songs was incredibly frustrating.
To the OP - the guitarist you are trying to recruit; is he going to have full control to play what he wants and change songs, or is basically joining someone else's band?
As much as I love original music, I'd MUCH rather play covers than be in that situation.
Currently I play with a very talented young woman who had songs written when I was recommended to her so I didn't have any real input, but was given free reign to play whatever I wanted on bass. I don't mind that at all (though lately we've been writing together a lot more) but I was also briefly in an indie rock band where I was told what to play. And there's a reason I said briefly - playing originals for little or no money while basically playing someone else's songs was incredibly frustrating.
To the OP - the guitarist you are trying to recruit; is he going to have full control to play what he wants and change songs, or is basically joining someone else's band?
As much as I love original music, I'd MUCH rather play covers than be in that situation.
The last original band I was in had a really good songwriter. He had a home studio, and would work up demo versions of the songs for us. After the fourth or fifth song that I rewrote the bass line on (he didn't mind so much), he figured out my style to the point that future songs had demo bass lines right along my path. I told him that I could tell he was writing the bass lines as I would, and he just smirked at me. I still made some changes here and there, but what he started with worked pretty well.
There's nothing wrong with giving the songwriter prerogative, especially when you get some free reign, and when he knows how you play well enough to factor it into new songs. Even good bass players aren't always good writers. Know what you do well, and don't pretend to be what you're not.
There's nothing wrong with giving the songwriter prerogative, especially when you get some free reign, and when he knows how you play well enough to factor it into new songs. Even good bass players aren't always good writers. Know what you do well, and don't pretend to be what you're not.
I play in an R"n'B" cover band, and what we do is add a twist to what we play. Change things up, make them your own. Be original. If you do that, you can throw in your own stuff
and the crowd is more liable to pay attention. We play for the joy of playing, and having the crowd, and of course the club owner enjoy what you're doing is what we do this for.
Good luck
and the crowd is more liable to pay attention. We play for the joy of playing, and having the crowd, and of course the club owner enjoy what you're doing is what we do this for.
Good luck
Everyone in the band is encouraged to bring their own material to the table and suggest tweaks for existing songs, but the band is a democratic one and everything is put to a vote. You cannot come in one day and just say "I am playing this now instead of that"
Actually technically I am doing that for you. My band writes songs...good ones at that. We have a better chance of having you cover our songs than you have of us covering..wait you don't have your own songs.
I know that guitarists are easy to find, but without tooting my own horn...everyone in the band is very good at what they do. We've auditioned a number of players and they all fall short.
And yes, that ratio is amazing. I think the city I live in is to blame. The ratio of civil servants to artistic types is probably about the same..5-1.
We want people to come in and be creative. We all have different backgrounds (black/death metal, prog rock, pop punk, indie) and are ready to welcome even more influences into the mix.
That's not to say we're writing pop punk black metal, but you know what I mean.
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