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I have a problem with cover/tribute bands.
- Thread starter T-Forty
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irony much?
Both sides of this issue seem to be full of people who are condescending, egotistical, and full of self-esteem issues.
I still stand by my statements that each (covering vs. originals or IOW playing vs. writing) has it's place, and each has equal merit, but most often they have different reasons attached to them. That's also not to say that there aren't some things that coexist in both disciplines either. It seems painfully obviou and I don't really understand how this isn't the prevelant viewpoint.
You consider Journey and Toto to be "70's bands"? I can see that you have a really firm grasp on the impact that those bands had at the time.
I don't think that there is much risk of that.
Gee...don't see anything in here about what your paying customers want, neh? Cover bands get decent money (if they're good at what they do) because they play what the audiance wants. If you can play a few of your own originals in there as well, that's great. Of course, a lot of people here would refer to the band I'm in as 'sellouts' at best, as when the audiance requests "Mustang Sally" or "Freebird," we painfully force ourselves to grin - and play what's requested. I also think there's a fair amount of creativity in playing covers; most of us can't play them exactly the way the original band recorded them (a lot of the original bands can't play them live the way they did in the studio!) and it takes some creative juices to re-write parts to your own style, abilities, etc. And it certainly takes a lot of effort to learn covered songs, almost as much as learning originals. What purpose is there in calling someone names and impunging their creative talents if they either play only covers, or only originals? There's room for both types of playing, and I'm sure there are a lot of bands out there who play both covers and their own songs when gigging. I suspect most of the name bands started out that way; as their fan base got familiar with the band's original material, slowly but surely the set lists would include more and more of their own material and fewer covers. And I've noted that even the big bands tend to play at least one or two covers in their live acts...
As much as I hate the idea that I let this topic prompt me to play, I do feel that the smearing that "cover" bands are getting is a little unwarranted.
Suppose you stumbled into a bar and found a band on stage playing really great music. You are digging their sound, their groove, their style and attitude. You admire how well the individual musicians do their thing as well as how well they all work together as a unit. You sense the charisma and appeal and as a result, you have a really great time, get inspired and feel like the time you've spent there has been worth while.
Then you discover that the group you just saw, even though you'd never heard any of the songs, was actually a cover band playing cover songs that you simply were not familiar with?
Now do you hate them? No longer respect their skills and abilities?
Oh, wait, they weren't a cover band - they were actually playing their own material.
OK, now you respect them again.
Man - all that judging seems a little exhausting to me.
When the curtain goes up, you are a musician with an instrument charged with the responsibility of delivering rhythmic, melodic and harmonious sounds for people to hear and hopefully enjoy. You can do that playing your own material or playing cover tunes. Neither situation is more righteous than the other. If you, as an individual, are deluding yourself into thinking the version of band you're currently in is somehow anything other than band, just a band - and really nothing more - well, that's your issue to hopefully eventually overcome.
The sooner, the better.
Suppose you stumbled into a bar and found a band on stage playing really great music. You are digging their sound, their groove, their style and attitude. You admire how well the individual musicians do their thing as well as how well they all work together as a unit. You sense the charisma and appeal and as a result, you have a really great time, get inspired and feel like the time you've spent there has been worth while.
Then you discover that the group you just saw, even though you'd never heard any of the songs, was actually a cover band playing cover songs that you simply were not familiar with?
Now do you hate them? No longer respect their skills and abilities?
Oh, wait, they weren't a cover band - they were actually playing their own material.
OK, now you respect them again.
Man - all that judging seems a little exhausting to me.
When the curtain goes up, you are a musician with an instrument charged with the responsibility of delivering rhythmic, melodic and harmonious sounds for people to hear and hopefully enjoy. You can do that playing your own material or playing cover tunes. Neither situation is more righteous than the other. If you, as an individual, are deluding yourself into thinking the version of band you're currently in is somehow anything other than band, just a band - and really nothing more - well, that's your issue to hopefully eventually overcome.
The sooner, the better.
... When the Levee breaks mama you got to go!This was an illuminating post.
I think what you're misunderstanding is that for some people the majority of the focus is on the SONGS rather than the performance. In your scenario my thoughts would be "those are really great songs! it's really cool that these guys wrote these awesome songs!" Now a much smaller and less significant thought I would be having is "these guys can really play, too." When I find out they're a cover band then the most significant part of MY interests in this band is gone. I don't "respect" them less, I'm just less interested in them because I care about whoever it was that wrote the songs I like more than who's playing the instruments... their focus is on playing music, mine is on writing it.
how about:
I hand you a book and say "I wrote this."
You read it and say "wow that was great, you're an excellent writer!"
I say "well, actually stephen king wrote it first, I just copied it page by page and changed the fifth chapter a bit"
Does your opinion change?
It took a lot of time and work to copy IT page by page didn't it?
Does that make Stephen King "better" than me?
Does that make me better than someone who writes a "bad" book?
You enjoyed the book I copied, right?
Depends on the criteria, right?
How about I go down to the local bar, and read a Steven King book to a crowd of people and see how many start dancing?
You're comparing apples and bicycles dude, not the same thing at all.
yep - purposefully misrepresenting yourself is fraud. I honestly don't believe that cover bands are purposefully misrepresenting themselves. They are not up there claiming to be the authors. They are, however, paying homage to the original authors by playing their songs. That's a very flattering way of saying, "We think this song is really cool."
If you handed me a book claiming to be the author, I read it and loved it, then learned that you lied to me, I'd think you were a fraud and a liar.
If your band played me a song deliberately claiming to be the author and I learned later that you lied, I'd again think you are liars who I cannot trust. If, however, you played me a really cool song, told me it's by Led Zeppelin - I'd think you were a band who played a really cool song.
If you handed me a book claiming to be the author, I read it and loved it, then learned that you lied to me, I'd think you were a fraud and a liar.
If your band played me a song deliberately claiming to be the author and I learned later that you lied, I'd again think you are liars who I cannot trust. If, however, you played me a really cool song, told me it's by Led Zeppelin - I'd think you were a band who played a really cool song.
I still say if you're playing a Fender or other production bass, that you're simply stealing Leo's ideas. How can you think you're innovative when you are using something designed 60 years ago or better and built in mass quantities to be sold enmasse to millions of innovators all over the world?
Futureman (The drummer for the Flecktones) built his one of a kind drum-tar. Now that's original!
Futureman (The drummer for the Flecktones) built his one of a kind drum-tar. Now that's original!
I laughed when I read your other post regarding this, lol I'm surprised nobody mentioned it.
Man! Unless you plant the seed and nurture it until it's a tree, and whittle your own neck and body, and mine the oar by hand, smelt and cast the hardware, you're just playing somebody elses idea for an instrument!
J bass! Sheesh! How uninspired!!
Very good point! Just like ChrisB2's comment...the electriciy one I have in my signature.
The OP had to see this kind of response coming...
wait..! Stephen King can write?
anyway...
Look at it this way.....what got you into music in the first place? Chances are it was somebody else music...yes? And when you got your first guitar, bass, drums, or keyboards, what was the first thing you attempted to play....probably that song right? nothing wrong with playing covers.....I play them because i love the song.....granted most people who come to hear us play have probably never hard the original versions. When a lot of bands first start to perform out in public they play covers becuse the itch to play out is so strong it usually outweighs a new musicians ability to write.
We all cut our teeth on covers. and we all end playing them in the end as they are like a comfortable old pair of jeans.
If i'm headed out for a weekend at a bar to kick back i want to hear songs i know not some dudes wanking...
Now on the flipside if I headed out to hear an original band i don't want to hear cover tunes...
they both have their place
so stop dogging cover bands....
anyway...
Look at it this way.....what got you into music in the first place? Chances are it was somebody else music...yes? And when you got your first guitar, bass, drums, or keyboards, what was the first thing you attempted to play....probably that song right? nothing wrong with playing covers.....I play them because i love the song.....granted most people who come to hear us play have probably never hard the original versions. When a lot of bands first start to perform out in public they play covers becuse the itch to play out is so strong it usually outweighs a new musicians ability to write.
We all cut our teeth on covers. and we all end playing them in the end as they are like a comfortable old pair of jeans.
If i'm headed out for a weekend at a bar to kick back i want to hear songs i know not some dudes wanking...
Now on the flipside if I headed out to hear an original band i don't want to hear cover tunes...
they both have their place
so stop dogging cover bands....
I don't either and it wasn't my intent to imply such a thing. I just want to state again for the record that I have great respect for cover bands, just not my cup-o-tea.
Let's change my analogy from me telling you I wrote the book to you mistakenly ASSUMING I wrote the book (why you would assume this is irrelevant to the analogy). The POINT of the analogy is to show that some people are more interested in the actual art and the expression (the song in the case of this thread, the book in my analogy) rather than the tools used to create said art (the musicians in the band in question or the guy physically writing out the words in my analogy). I greatly respect musicians, but again the real discussion here is about the difference between the act of playing music and the act of writing music.
In that scenario I would think "Led Zeppelin is a really cool band that I should check out.... and oh yeah, good job playing your instruments." My interest would be in the song, not the guys who are playing the song for me.
I can understand why this is not a popular view on a bass playing forum, but I'm pretty sure it's fairly accurate in explaining the divide in philosophy we see here.
How many times has the story of Little Red Riding Hood been retold? I highly doubt the majority of people have ever read or heard the original version. Hell you may even like one of the "cover" versions of the story better than the original.
My point is this. While retelling the story of Little Red Riding Hood doesn't make you an author, at the same time it doesn't make you less of a story teller. (Provided your retelling isn't awful.)
I personally think this whole originals vs covers argument is stupid.
Originals - You're no better than someone who plays covers simply because it's your own material. No matter if what you write and play is garbage or if it's good, it's not a license to sit on high and look down on others. If you're playing music you enjoy, then be quiet and let others do the same.
And I find the occasional "cover bands take MY spot" argument to be totally ridiculous.
Covers - I have no problem with cover bands, so long as it is played well. It doesn't matter if they try and emulate a song or group to the smallest detail, or if they put their own twist on every song in the set list. They are playing music they like, having a good time, and entertaining people.
I've always believed that was the whole point behind playing music was to do something you enjoy. Not an excuse to climb on your milk crate and start passing judgment on others. So long as you have a good time, that's all that should really matter.
Originals - You're no better than someone who plays covers simply because it's your own material. No matter if what you write and play is garbage or if it's good, it's not a license to sit on high and look down on others. If you're playing music you enjoy, then be quiet and let others do the same.
And I find the occasional "cover bands take MY spot" argument to be totally ridiculous.
Covers - I have no problem with cover bands, so long as it is played well. It doesn't matter if they try and emulate a song or group to the smallest detail, or if they put their own twist on every song in the set list. They are playing music they like, having a good time, and entertaining people.
I've always believed that was the whole point behind playing music was to do something you enjoy. Not an excuse to climb on your milk crate and start passing judgment on others. So long as you have a good time, that's all that should really matter.
So, you're looking for a guitarist to cover your tunes, eh? 
Remember, all of the non-writers in the band are the cover band!
Remember, all of the non-writers in the band are the cover band!
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