Funny thing is, around here the reverse of your second statement is actually true with "original" bands. I've seen technically good bands clear a bar pretty fast playing a couple of honestly good versions of cover tunes at shows.
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I have a problem with cover/tribute bands.
- Thread starter T-Forty
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Funny thing is, around here the reverse of your second statement is actually true with "original" bands. I've seen technically good bands clear a bar pretty fast playing a couple of honestly good versions of cover tunes at shows.
agreed. except that the "discussion" has been pretty circular (downward spiral actually) since about day 1. i'll go so far as to say most of the posts are "re-interpretations" or "covers" of previous posts. i guess the lot of US aren't as capable of original thought as we like to think.
"cover bands suck and they're fat and lazy!" = mustang sally
"original "musicians" are hiding their ineptitude behind the flag of false "creativity" !"= brown eyed girl
but i'm still here... glued to my couch!
great thread. i played in a good original band for 10+ years, recorded cd's, etc, made almost no money at the end of the day. worthless, you say? i joined a cover band and now i work 2-3 days a week doing just that. playing bass for money. a great concept.
I love these threads.
My cover band played a bar gig last weekend. Our opening act, an original singer-songwriter, played outside, in the rain, to 12 people including the bar owners. He was a good guitarist and a decent singer, but his songwriting skills were average, at best. He did not get paid.
My band played inside to a capacity crowd. The dance floor was packed when we played songs like "Mustang Sally" and "Brick House." We had two requests for encores. A good looking drunk girl offered meet me in the parking lot. People bought the band drinks all night. We got paid.....pretty well I might add.
The opening act stuck around for our show, and asked the drummer and I to do some studio work for his next "EP" (for free, of course. ) We politely declined.
I win.
My cover band played a bar gig last weekend. Our opening act, an original singer-songwriter, played outside, in the rain, to 12 people including the bar owners. He was a good guitarist and a decent singer, but his songwriting skills were average, at best. He did not get paid.
My band played inside to a capacity crowd. The dance floor was packed when we played songs like "Mustang Sally" and "Brick House." We had two requests for encores. A good looking drunk girl offered meet me in the parking lot. People bought the band drinks all night. We got paid.....pretty well I might add.
The opening act stuck around for our show, and asked the drummer and I to do some studio work for his next "EP" (for free, of course. ) We politely declined.
I win.
I'm sure part of the allure of doing jazz standards was to somewhat subvert the norms. Stripping a pop song down to it's bare frame and then reconstructing it always struck me as paying homage yet also taking a bit of a jab at the mainstream.
That said, something else that hasn't really been addressed (somewhat shockingly after 36 pages) is that occasionally covers are ONLY used to fill out a full set. In my trio we do this. Our frontwoman primarily picked the covers and most people don't know them anyway (Big Sir, Ben Kweller, Jeff Buckley, Mike Doughty etc) so we have license to pretty much play them how we want. She usually announces them as covers, but if we don't people assume they are originals.
VERY few cities have a music scene like Austin. It is just a different vibe than most places. I've been there a number of times, including twice for South by Southwest and I get to see something cool in terms of live music every time. IMO, just a lot less hangups than other cities with large live music scenes.
Of course, where I'm at the live music scene is a very tough one for all bands. In fact, pretty much all the bands and artists that have made it big from here haven't actually done it FROM here. They've had to go elsewhere before getting their real breaks - many of them actually doing so in Europe.
I wasn't one of the guys saying a cover musician is a failed musician, but I do think that someone who plays only covers and brags about it as though he/she is one up on original players has got some real problems. and i do think (make that know) that someone playing covers who refuses to write their own stuff or ever play in an original band is taking the easier route, or just plain copping out. There's nothing at all wrong with that, until they start trying to put down writers as a few are here. then there's something very very wrong with that because the writers are what make the covers people's glory possible. and they don't seem to get it. I've said that about 12X now I think. Almost as many times as I quit this thread.
I never claimed you chimed in with the failed musician stuff. I know your posts (in all threads) and you're always the voice of reason. I do think every musician should spend a lot of time playing original music (or just being a player in an original band). I don't believe that playing original music gives on musician any more credibility than a cover band musician.
It's interesting, in NYC I played in original bands, theater, jazz (both original and standards). I never played in a cover band, in SLC I'm playing in a cover band and a band that does originals and covers. I like the band that does originals and covers more because in the covers we have a little more room to be ourselves, plus the musicians have their stuff together. The other band is purely about money, the guys are older, we play some real crappy songs, and the players really don't have enough together as musicians (they are more like the failed musician types I referred to earlier). I'm gonna play a couple of gigs with these guys and then possibly cut out.
Joe, you used to play in "The Nerve" right? Do you still go to Electric Plant Studios? We never met, but I think we may know each other.
I guess that's why all the bands from San Angelo and Lubbock and Dallas come down here...they can stretch themselves creatively and not suffer (much if at all) for it.
Many do make more money in Europe, though. All the biggest bands from here do Europe.
Cherie
My band would be totally screwed then. We do both. We'll always do both. Just about everyone else we know in bands does both.
No one would book us up there!
I need to go by my favorite venues and let them know how much we appreciate having places where we can play what we want to. You've made me feel like I need to express my appreciation.
Cherie
There are places in Boston for both, but they are few and farther between than in Austin! One place I've seen some great cover/original bands is the Plough and Stars in Cambridge (its down the street from me). I just saw this band Link Removed there last weekend for the second time (my friend waltz to a sea shanty with a man with a peg leg. No joke). They are fantastic! If you are every up in New England and looking for a gig, try the Plough and Stars!
Well, right under your post we find this-
So yeah, it looks like the whole condescending attitude thing does cut both ways.
Personally, I find them both closeminded and amusing.
You seem very angry. Did a guy from an original band steal your girlfriend or something? If you're so happy in your cover band, why spend so much time trying to convince original band guys that you're better than them?
You do realize that without original bands you'd have nothing to cover, right?
I love these threads.
My cover band played a bar gig last weekend. Our opening act, an original singer-songwriter, played outside, in the rain, to 12 people including the bar owners. He was a good guitarist and a decent singer, but his songwriting skills were average, at best. He did not get paid.
My band played inside to a capacity crowd. The dance floor was packed when we played songs like "Mustang Sally" and "Brick House." We had two requests for encores. A good looking drunk girl offered meet me in the parking lot. People bought the band drinks all night. We got paid.....pretty well I might add.
The opening act stuck around for our show, and asked the drummer and I to do some studio work for his next "EP" (for free, of course. ) We politely declined.
I win.
Very well stated! I get paid. Fairly well. I have fun. I see full dance floors. The original poster, oh so many pages ago? Not so much.
Of course, you can also play packed houses, travel the country, and get paid in original bands, too. You just have to be good. And most original bands aren't.
When I see a full house, I know they are there to hear me (well, probably not me as the bassist
) not the cover. And that's a real cool thing!
When I see a full house, I know they are there to hear me (well, probably not me as the bassist
) not the cover. And that's a real cool thing!What kind of neighborhoods do you guys live in, where people break into your houses and force you to read threads you don't like at gunpoint? I feel very fortunate to be able to ignore threads that bore me, given that many others don't seem to have this luxury.
Wow.. not only are you a better musician than the rest of us, but you get to decide who should and shouldn't be able to have their own opinion? Are you posting to this thread from your own private island fortress, surrounded by armies of robots and sharks with frikkin' lasers?
Let's take Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things" from The Sound Of Music as an example. Did he get onstage and play a rote version of the arrangement from the musical, or did he take the basic structure of the song and transform it into something completely new (and dare I say... original)? Does your average rock/pop/top 40 cover band do that? I think a version of Mustang Sally with 5 minutes of jazz soloing in the middle would in most cases prove to be a gig loser.
Audiences went to see Coltrane, not to hear a song from The Sound Of Music. Cover bands draw their audiences because people want to hear those songs, not because they want to hear your unique, bold interpretations of them. That's a big, big difference.
Very True. And the fact that he can't find a guitard is troubling. I would much rather play in an original band but I can't knock someone for wanting to play covers. Writing music that is good is very hard. But it is just as hard to be a good cover musician. I have been lucky enough to find really good original bands. But I'm getting old now and may turn the darkside(covers)
Maybe not, but just because those things are important to you doesn't mean they're important to him. Likewise, he'd be just as wrong to judge you for not writing songs just because it's important to him if it isn't important to you.
What I find hilarious is that we have two groups of people here who absolutely cannot accept that anyone might possibly have a different reason for playing music or a different criteria for success than they do, yet they both feel superior to each other.
I happen to enjoy a good train wreck, so by all means, carry on...
Well, noone who has their head on straight takes this stuff personally. The issue arrises when someone pops in to impart their infinite wisdom upon us logical musicians. Then someone is forced to defend themselves---maybe taking a cheap shot while they're at it--and it escalates into a frenzy of hotheaded folk who have no axe to grind....And the guy who popped in? He's probably sleeping soundly, unaware that his little diatribe is causing the bass community to become uneasy. It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting.................
I keep reading this thread because there is a chance of a discussion here.
It's cool as long as you know I'm a better musician AND better dresser. And yes I AM THE DECIDER of who has an opinion. Now that you know about my island I'll have to kill you.
I never said I would do a top 40 tune with jazz soloing, Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things" brings a tear to my eye, I love it deeply. If I had that level of musicality in me I'd be the happiest man on earth.
I noticed you put a lot of words in my mouth, I never said I was a better musician than ANYBODY, but I am a better dresser.
We keep arguing because "cover" people and "original" people are very, very different. The type of personality that drives somebody to use their precious off-work time to play in an original band is vastly different from the type of person who would play in a cover band. And, if you don't think that your opinion is more valid than anybody elses (and, the other people are total idiots for NOT agreeing with you), what's the point of opinions Or, for that matter, TB!!
Also, eww old guys.
Or, for that matter, TB!!Also, eww old guys.
So by your logic, McDonald's is the best food in the world?
OK, let's extrapolate- in your local music scene, cover bands make more money and have larger crowds than the original bands, so they must be better, right? Well, you're forgetting something- factor in all bands, and The Beatles by themselves pretty much wipe all cover bands that have ever existed combined off the map, so original bands are better.
/thread
We keep arguing because "cover" people and "original" people are very, very different. The type of personality that drives somebody to use their precious off-work time to play in an original band is vastly different from the type of person who would play in a cover band. And, if you don't think that your opinion is more valid than anybody elses (and, the other people are total idiots for NOT agreeing with you), what's the point of opinions
I have to disagree with the different personalities idea. We are still musicians no matter what we play. I've always been the bass player, I've never been comfortable as the composer. I write my own basslines, but not any songs. I've tried and still do, but I don't feel my writing is worth making people play or listen to.
I don't think it makes a huge difference, covers or originals, if I play a ascending major third in an original tune is it any different than the same interval in a cover? Are eighth notes any different in originals? Are dissonant intervals any more consonant in covers? The last I checked it's all the same stuff, music.
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