I have quit worship music...

[Meddle]

Many of the posts on here just remind us that most folks on TB don't show respect for any religion and are more than eager to make a joke out of your religion or your god (whoever it may be).

I'm not sure why a religion should be respected, because by respecting it you have to accept its failings verbatim.

The catholic faith is known for sheltering pedophiles. The Islamic faith treats women's liberties like used toilet paper. The gaza strip, ethnic cleansing, gassings, bombings, 9/11... what else do you need?

I respect individuals within a religion who do good. For example when my mother underwent chemotherapy in 2008 she had a lot of support from her local church. A load more than from my Father's side of the family. Religion can bring out the best in people, but an unfortunate bi-product is that superiority complex. If there was only one religion in the world I would have a lot more time for it, but when you get into it this is obviously not the case.

Here in Scotland we have a sectarian issue with protestants and catholics. For example catholics believe that the wine drunk at communion actuall becomes the blood of jesus christ (transubstantiation). You have to believe impossible junk like that to be a good catholic.

When such a diabolic removal of common sense happens you have to laugh. I for one cannot respect any of that as it flies in the face of common sense, makes otherwise normal people enemies of eachother and generally does damage.

 

[bongomania]

When such a diabolic removal of common sense happens you have to laugh.

That's why we enjoy Fassa threads.

 

[Meddle]

That's why we enjoy Fassa threads.

She seems to have a similar following on other forums. Its like spectating a car crash or something.

 

[Lincoln]

I'm not sure why a religion should be respected, because by respecting it you have to accept its failings verbatim.

The catholic faith is known for sheltering pedophiles. The Islamic faith treats women's liberties like used toilet paper. The gaza strip, ethnic cleansing, gassings, bombings, 9/11... what else do you need?

While you are certainly welcome to your opinions, though, I'd be curious to know how much you have investigated the beliefs of the religions you are saying are not worthy of respect.

I cannot speak for other religions other than Christianity, so I will not. But let me give you a quote from Christ:

The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31
"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?'

'The most important one,' Jesus answered, 'is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.'

This does not sound like a command to harbor pedophiles, or firebomb abortion clinics. In fact, here's how God really feels about religion:

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

So what does this mean for me as a Christian? That faith is following after and seeking God's heart. And seeking to serve and love others as he seeks and loves me. The problem is that we are all human. We want our way more than we want God's way, so in typical human fashion we take God's best intentions for us and twist and distort them to our selfish and often evil purposes.

I ask you this: Is it fair to blame Christ for the often terrible behavior of some of his followers—particularly when they've clearly ignored the two most important commandments?

Ghandi didn't think so:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mohandas Gandhi

Ironically, it could be argued that the 50 million plus deaths at the hands of the athiest Nazi and Communist regimes in the 20th century is more than all of wartime deaths of religious regimes through the previous 19 centuries (and that's spanning multiple religions).

Maybe it's not so ironic.

 

[Crowder101]

It sounds to me like you need a break. I've been away for 18 months from Worship Team participation (after 18 years) - totally burnt out and frustrated, and NOW I hunger to give back. We're human, and we need to get the focus OFF ourselves... it's really hard sometimes. GOD BLESS!

I agree! Hang in there, even if it means taking a break temporarily.. We all go through 'seasons'! Itll work out, just trust God and seek his will!

 

[kesslari]

While you are certainly welcome to your opinions, though, I'd be curious to know how much you have investigated the beliefs of the religions you are saying are not worthy of respect.

I cannot speak for other religions other than Christianity, so I will not. But let me give you a quote from Christ:

The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31
"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?'

'The most important one,' Jesus answered, 'is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.'

This does not sound like a command to harbor pedophiles, or firebomb abortion clinics. In fact, here's how God really feels about religion:

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

So what does this mean for me as a Christian? That faith is following after and seeking God's heart. And seeking to serve and love others as he seeks and loves me. The problem is that we are all human. We want our way more than we want God's way, so in typical human fashion we take God's best intentions for us and twist and distort them to our selfish and often evil purposes.

I ask you this: Is it fair to blame Christ for the often terrible behavior of some of his followers—particularly when they've clearly ignored the two most important commandments?

Ghandi didn't think so:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mohandas Gandhi

Ironically, it could be argued that the 50 million plus deaths at the hands of the athiest Nazi and Communist regimes in the 20th century is more than all of wartime deaths of religious regimes through the previous 19 centuries (and that's spanning multiple religions).

Maybe it's not so ironic.

I don't see anyone getting down on Christ (or on any of the founders of religions) but on some of the ways their followers practice. You're saying that yourself when you cite Ghandi.

Ghandi didn't think so:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mohandas Gandhi

I'm not sure you're doing your faith much of a favor with your examples.

"Christianity - historically we may have killed fewer people than the Nazi's".
Not a great endorsement of a religion that is, I think, founded on "love thy neighbor and thy God".
And I don't know - I dont' have the details. But I have a feeling that just taking three historical periods (the Crusades, the colonial periods and forced conversions of the Americas, and the inter-denominational wars following the Reformation) that Christianity may have been responsible for more than 50 million deaths.
And no, I don't think that's Jesus' fault. I think He was appalled by many of the things perpetrated in His name.

But all of this discussion of religion itself strays far from the Fassareality that she's giving up worship music because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she's given up non-worship music because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she's stopped playing bass because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she slaps everything and plays as well as Geddy Lee, but people there don't accept her, and it's their fault.

 

[Lincoln]

I don't see anyone getting down on Christ (or on any of the founders of religions) but on some of the ways their followers practice. You're saying that yourself when you cite Ghandi.



I'm not sure you're doing your faith much of a favor with your examples.

"Christianity - historically we may have killed fewer people than the Nazi's".
Not a great endorsement of a religion that is, I think, founded on "love thy neighbor and thy God".
And I don't know - I dont' have the details. But I have a feeling that just taking three historical periods (the Crusades, the colonial periods and forced conversions of the Americas, and the inter-denominational wars following the Reformation) that Christianity may have been responsible for more than 50 million deaths.
And no, I don't think that's Jesus' fault. I think He was appalled by many of the things perpetrated in His name.

But all of this discussion of religion itself strays far from the Fassareality that she's giving up worship music because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she's given up non-worship music because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she's stopped playing bass because people there don't accept her, and it's their fault. And she slaps everything and plays as well as Geddy Lee, but people there don't accept her, and it's their fault.

You would do well, to research the numbers more accurately before coming to such an opinion, because in truth, 50 million is a grossly conservative number. Some researchers have put the number higher than 85 million deaths ( again that's one century versus 900 years - just think through that for a minute ) ...however the real point is that religion tends to be the man-made Frankenstein monster of God-given faith...

And what of the Christian abolitionists, Mother Theresa, or the Salvation Army? What these examples have in common is selfless humility. I've not seen any government religion-based or otherwise that has operated with humility and selflessness as it's modis operandi.

And for those of us who live and serve Christ we have to constantly check ourselves and see if we are acting in faith serving and loving God or serving our own egos in the name of God...Fassareality may need to spend some time in prayer over this....I know I have had to in the past...

Good conversation!

 

[Eater_of_Birds]

never use somethings source material to back itself up, quoting the bible to defend christianity is kind of like circular logic. there are enough contradictions to argue just about any side of anything. and the church backed the nazis back in the day (to name but one hideous collaboration they've had over the years), try not to start with the old hitler was an athiest conversation. im with Meddle on the overall subject. i dont mind religious people at all, thats their choice, and most christians i know are good people, and if theres no proselytizing im not bothered tbh. but respecting the faith itself, the practice of faith or the church/s is an entirely different proposition. the Christ blamed for bad christians is a good point though, i see the (larger) church as corrupt, but true followers are by their very nature good, as whatever they do, be it moral or reprehensible, is ultimately what they believe to be the right thing. thats where the danger is the wayi see it. like Hitchens point about good people doing terrible things.
*sees thread deletion looming on the horizon*
going to post a picture of my cat over in the basses with pets thread now ^ ^

 

[billhilly66]

Why all the preachin? I thought we were talking about a noob chick bass player with a fretless 5 string wondering why she wasn't clicking with her band.

 

[kesslari]

You would do well, to research the numbers more accurately before coming to such an opinion, because in truth, 50 million is a grossly conservative number. Some researchers have put the number higher than 85 million deaths ( again that's one century versus 900 years - just think through that for a minute ) ...however the real point is that religion tends to be the man-made Frankenstein monster of God-given faith...

And what of the Christian abolitionists, Mother Theresa, or the Salvation Army? What these examples have in common is selfless humility. I've not seen any government religion-based or otherwise that has operated with humility and selflessness as it's modis operandi.

And for those of us who live and serve Christ we have to constantly check ourselves and see if we are acting in faith serving and loving God or serving our own egos in the name of God...Fassareality may need to spend some time in prayer over this....I know I have had to in the past...

Good conversation!

Actually, it's the pre-20th century numbers that are more difficult to get. They're big, but just how big?
I agree, good conversation, but let's take it off-thread if you want to continue it.
I'm certainly not arguing that "no good has come out of Christianity" or that "the bad has been a result of people following the teachings of Jesus". I think that's your main point, and I agree with it. If the people who consider themselves Christian followed the teachings of Jesus, the world would be a much better place.

Which still has nothing to do why people who play in Praise bands, as well as people who play in Rock bands, and people who get together to jam, don't want to play with Fassa.

 

[Rudyboy98]

As a bass player, worship leader, and former music director-I can say I have seen quite a bit of both bad and good as well as shared both of the bad and good. Needless to say, when I did things wrong...I knew that it wasn't all about what others were doing to me, but what I often times did to myself.

I have been frustrated and, to a point, angry about mediocrity with some bands, lackluster character, and poor ethics. Don't promise if you can't deliver. I much prefer you back out than leave me hanging.

OTOH-I also examine my own character, playing, and quality constantly. I find many faults, and that's not only because I am human. Many times I have made poor choices, only to suffer consequences that I alone am responsible for. As much as I expect, I must remember to expect the same of myself.

It would be foolish of me to have such high expectations, Christian or not, of another musician that I would not expect of myself. That's why I choose to work with musicians that know what I expect and are willing to "give their best to God" not what they can squeak by with. God deserves the best.

If you are a new musician, just getting started-but are trying...then that's your best. I respect that. If you are at an intermediate level, and practice (trust me-it shows) than that's your best. I respect that as well.

But if you do neither-don't expect me to believe you are giving your best. You're only fooling yourself. If the OP wasn't giving her best, then that's on her.

R...

 

[puddin tame]

maybe the fretless wasn't the best choice for the worship music? especially if you've only been playing a year

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I don't play in a worship band myself, but I suppose I can see where the OP is coming from. Religion and beliefs and such are something that IS about selflessness and putting others first, but a lot of my friends in praise bands have said that they feel its sort of like changing churches. Just because it isn't the right church for you, doesn't mean its a bad thing...otherwise they'd all go to the same church! I think it might be the same thing for bands, maybe that particular group just isn't doing it for you...but branch out and see if you can't find another christian group or band that is seeing eye to eye with you and go from there.

I have a lot of respect for my friends that do this, because when I go out and play...all I'm doing is spewing my emotional baggage or opinion on stage to make money or get my stuff off my chest...people might identify or they might not with how I was feeling when I wrote my music. Using music to take people to another place and experience something of a spiritual nature is pretty deep stuff man, I'd call em apples to oranges but I admire what you guys do a lot.

 

[Lincoln]

never use somethings source material to back itself up, quoting the bible to defend christianity is kind of like circular logic. there are enough contradictions to argue just about any side of anything. and the church backed the nazis back in the day (to name but one hideous collaboration they've had over the years), try not to start with the old hitler was an athiest conversation. im with Meddle on the overall subject. i dont mind religious people at all, thats their choice, and most christians i know are good people, and if theres no proselytizing im not bothered tbh. but respecting the faith itself, the practice of faith or the church/s is an entirely different proposition. the Christ blamed for bad christians is a good point though, i see the (larger) church as corrupt, but true followers are by their very nature good, as whatever they do, be it moral or reprehensible, is ultimately what they believe to be the right thing. thats where the danger is the wayi see it. like Hitchens point about good people doing terrible things.
*sees thread deletion looming on the horizon*
going to post a picture of my cat over in the basses with pets thread now ^ ^

...a circular argument is one that commits the logical fallacy of assuming what it is attempting to prove. There is no assumption about what those scripture say (translating Greek, even ancient Greek is a well preserved process). And it is clear that the behavior of many Christians is in direct conflict to those scriptures.

...And Adolf Hitler was quite the fan of the well known atheist, Nietzshe...I'm pretty sure burning Bibles wasn't something the Nazi's did as a means of following Christ...

To be sure, Christians, have done quite a bit of damage to the world in the name of Christ—but certainly not in the spirit of Christ. More accurately, in direct opposition to Christ.

For example: being in a worship band for the sole purpose or ultimate purpose of exhalting myself...

There is much work that every person calling themselves a Christian must do to live a life that reflects Christ. Starting with loving God with everything we have and ending with loving the next person more than we love ourselves.

 

[Thor]

Religious discussion belongs in the Lobby. Feel free to start
a further discussion of this topic there. The Bass Humor forum
is definitely not the right place for this.

Closed.