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I hope Esperanza is not doing a Meshell!

“Typical snowflake?” For the amount of time we’ve both been members here, and been reading each other’s posts, I thought you knew me, and I you, a little better than that. Guess I was mistaken. My bad.

For your benefit (since everybody here seems to get where I’m coming from but you) my comment was directed at the inappropriate and overuse of the word “hate” or “hate on” that crops up all too often these days whenever any criticism is leveled at anything. It’s childish because it’s a shaming move. It doesn’t address the criticism being made. It attacks the motives and character of the person saying they don’t care for something. Because “hate” (if you bother to look up the actual definition) is a pretty ugly word. And a pretty ugly accusation to lightly throw at people. If me taking issue with that when I see it is soapboxing, then so be it. Feel free to disregard it if so. I see no reason to change my position on that bit of misusage.

As far as somebody disagreeing with my opinions or dismissing them out of hand (who exactly did that btw?) feel free. I won’t be offended. I treat disagreement- if conducted in a well reasoned and moderately respectful manner - to be an opportunity for me to learn something rather than an excuse to feel insulted. Something I’m able to do because I don’t pretend to have all the answers or the final word on any topic. If I did, I’d already know all I needed to know, and not need to bother coming here.

Hope that clarifies.

Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
My, albeit trollish, goal here was to cast your "kids these days and their lack of dialectic" rant under the same light that it was attempting to cast. Namely, by attributing to the mere expectation of civil discourse itself the same sin of self-entitlement you imply (whether explicitly in your post, or implicitly by virtue of the context ["downfall of western civilization," and all that]) those trying to shut down the discourse are guilty of. Your basic "shoe's on the other foot" devil's advocacy.

The use of "snowflake" was intended to be the giveaway term for the irony of the post, turning around a term typically used for deriding the "participation trophy" generation and applying it to someone older. But it seems it was too subtle (or perhaps too un-subtle) to achieve that aim. Certainly did not mean to connote any of its uses in left/right political diatribe.

So, sorry if the humor didn't land, no disrespect intended beyond my typical asinine irreverence.

But I stand by my point that "hater's gonna hate" is as viable an entry into the discourse as any well reasoned argument, as much as it may chafe your sensibilities. Its use is not meant to be taken as seriously as you've taken it (or as seriously as you took my post), and it is inherently incapable of shaming or shutting down, as your own analysis suggests. It's just a shorthand dismissal along the lines of "you've just got an axe to grind' or "you just don't ‘get it.’” Read it as such and I think you'll have a better time.
 
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I sure hope this isn’t the best track on her new album!
I like your posts, Doc, but I'm taking the other side of this one.

She's a great musician, trying to make music that means something to her. Obviously. This isn't a sell out with a canned beat and ridiculous lyrics.

Can't help but think of Joni a little listening to this.

How about this one? I'm curious if you'd say the same about this tune?

 
Esperanza is very talented and skilled obviously, but I am not that into any of the music she has made, this latest included.

I was thinking about MeShell, Tal, and Esperanza. Interesting how each came up as a “player”, and now seem to have moved away from that.
I hear you, but I wonder if, in their minds, they're not moving away from something but trying to move toward something else?

I'll bet a lot of these virtuoso players realize, after 10 years or so making other people's music great, that they have music inside them and they want to at least say they tried to get it out. And, they have a platform to do it, a jumping off point because of their biz cred.

Anyway, just a thought.
 
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These are two artist I highly trust, if they want to go in a new direction I'll follow them. True art is never meant to stagnate, it would have been craven of them to just follow pop success with the same formula album after album.
IMHO
Again with the binary. If an artist doesn't decide to release an extended-length set of elvish lute music, apparently the only other option is to rehash every nuance of the first album over and over again?

I think there is a middle ground.

As regards MeShell, her first 2 albums were both full of biting social commentary and wicked-tight funk grooves. As time passed, she settled into a sleepy slow-jam R&B sound. There was a little of that on the early albums too, but there's really none of the aggressive stuff on her recent work, at all. What she is doing now would be unlikely to win any of her original fans as new fans, if now were the first time they heard her music. It's just not nearly as interesting to the same group of people who dug it to begin with. As evidenced in this thread.

There are groups out there where no two of their albums sound alike, but who somehow maintain(ed) appeal with their base as they also attracted new fans. Manchester Orchestra is a band like that blowing up right now. I think Stone Temple Pilots was like that. Rush cut it close with the directional move around Signals, but in the end it worked out for them.

IMHO
 
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I like it and lets face it, she’s a singer and she plays bass. But it's singer first.

Not true at all. She was a prodigy on the bass long before she started writing more "pop" songs. From her bio on her own website to Wikipedia and Spotify she is and always will be a bass player first.
 
People cry, and bitch, and moan when artists make art that speaks to their soul.

You want some pop trash? Stream some Taylor Swift.

Respect the craft, guys. She's doing what she wants to do, the thing that makes her happy. Is that so wrong?

There is more music available to people all over the globe than there has ever been before. I bet there's 100 musicians like the Esperanza Spalding you wish she still was with less than 1,000 streams on Spotify. Seek them out.
 
I like your posts, Doc, but I'm taking the other side of this one.

She's a great musician, trying to make music that means something to her. Obviously. This isn't a sell out with a canned beat and ridiculous lyrics.

Can't help but think of Joni a little listening to this.

How about this one? I'm curious if you'd say the same about this tune?



First of all, the Bowie song sounds like Bowie to me. I liked some things by Bowie, but I never followed him closely.

As for Esperanza, she will do what she does. Before I had ever heard of her, she was a great bassist. She has every right to explore other avenues of expression.

I don’t have to buy her product to respect her as a musician. We may be on the same side still.
 
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People cry, and bitch, and moan when artists make art that speaks to their soul.

You want some pop trash? Stream some Taylor Swift.

Respect the craft, guys. She's doing what she wants to do, the thing that makes her happy. Is that so wrong?

There is more music available to people all over the globe than there has ever been before. I bet there's 100 musicians like the Esperanza Spalding you wish she still was with less than 1,000 streams on Spotify. Seek them out.

I think Taylor Swift is good at what she does even though I have never bought her music.

I am not going to lose sleep if Esperanza Spalding makes music I don’t like.
 
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