I just don't know what to do anymore.

[TC2112]

I have always looked at this type of stuff with a sliding scale. Talent is in direct proportion to bu11sh!t. Once the BS exceeds the talent, it's time to go. You need to decide what proportion of BS you are willing to except given the level of talent.

 

[Gus Borden]

I just went through a somewhat similar scenario with my previous band. The major difference is we were covers. But some similar markers. Small number of new songs learned. Not steady practices. People who seemed blind to what the problems where no matter how frequently I mentioned them. BUT we were gigging regular. And I didn't want to have to start over. It finally became too much and I gVe my notice last week. The minute I did it I KNEW it was the right thing to do, felt so much better. I have a new drummer who is excellent now and we are looking for our guitarist/singer. It can be daunting starting from scratch, but sometimes it can be the best thing you can do. Sometimes you need to get clear of the wreckage to see the up side, if you get my meaning.

 

[Never_grew_up]

Look a it this way -
Suppose it wasn't a band. Suppose you guys were housepainters, or a drywall crew, or had your own music store. Hard to get a house painted when half your crew doesn't show up, or the guy that has all the drywall in his truck is 1-1/2 hours late.
If your music store is supposed to be open from 10 to 6 but whoever's supposed to open it doesn't show till 11:30, or the guy that's supposed to cover Saturday doesn't show at all, your store will close pretty quickly.

I'm in a hobby/part-time band and we all have 'real' day jobs, some of us are married, have kids, etc. We all have other demands on our time so if we commit to a practice everyone better be there or have a good reason for not. It's just plain rude and insensitive to waste other people's time like that. We've dumped the same singer twice because she'd commit to practice and then not show or call. I would even go out of my way to pick her up for practice because she didn't have a car and she wouldn't even be home. So she'd be a no-show and I'd be late to practice. She had a good voice, super stage presence, and was pretty easy to look at, but she was such a flake we couldn't book a gig because we weren't sure she'd show up.
I play music for stress relief, not stress increase. Tell 'em to grow up or F- off.

 

[Stumbo]

What I have found over the years is that I still stay in touch with them and occasionally we will get together and either just jam in my mancave or we will do some songwriting or recording. On rare occasion we will book a one off show at a local club to give us some sense of urgency and commitment.

This. ^^ Then find a gigging 2nd band. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.

Life lesson: if there's something in your life causing you pain on an ongoing basis and you keep returning to get a dose of more pain, there's something that needs to changed in YOU, not them. Work on things in your life that you can control (e.g.,like removing the source of the pain)

Take whatever advice you like, but one fact about human society remains:

You cannot make people change.

Not unless you are a General, Sheriff or the President.

If they are really your friends and committed to the band, they will understand.

I think combining friendship and business lead to the exact situation you're in. If they were your employees, they all would have been fired a long time ago.

Yeah I hear you guys. I think next practice we're just going to have to have a talk about this and we'll just have to see how they react, if they're willing to compromise or make small changes. I guess I could be less on them about certain things, but at the same time I feel like I let a lot go.

You already know how they'll react. You have said enough words already and nothing has worked. IMO, don't waste your time waiting to see if they will "change". Not gonna happen.

If they're not on the same page as you from the beginning, nothing you will or can say will change a life time of habits (good or bad).

How many band members does it take to change a light bulb? One(usually the bass player), because the rest can't tell if the light is on or off.

Good luck.

 

[iri5hpunk21]

I think I got it figured out, they came over and apologized for everything that had been going on (or not) and they told their family and friends that we are locking down the next few months' worth of weekends for band only activities

 

[Stumbo]

I think I got it figured out, they came over and apologized for everything that had been going on (or not) and they told their family and friends that we are locking down the next few months' worth of weekends for band only activities

IMO, they need to find balance in their lives and not put off the band or the family.

What happens after the "next few months"?

IMO, if you're looking for long-term commitment, I wouldn't have them doing any one thing to the exclusivity of the other.

IME, ignoring the needs of their families will last, maybe, a few weeks or so. When problems arise, they will always choose family.

I suggest making a rehearsal schedule that they all can live with and still have time with their families.

IME, they are just saying what you want to hear so you won't quit.

Only time will tell.

 

[Jason P Bass]

[Jason P Bass says you cannot make people change...]

Not unless you are a General, Sheriff or the President.

No man. If you're a General, Sheriff, or the President, you can do stuff to people but you cannot make them change. Even if you're a drill sergeant at basic training, you cannot make them change. You hope to have enough control over their life and surroundings that they CHOOSE to change their ways, and everyone is better off.

But nobody, anywhere, can make another person change.

 

[James Judson]

Take up drinking and head on down to the rehearsal studio to party with your friends. Pick up on a side project. Its hard to be serious about the band when the pay is so overwelming. There will always be a weak link in the band so you will always need patients or you will go nuts. My drummer friend calls it "kndergarten".

 

[sef]

Don't text them with a serious issue that you have.

Go face to face with them and tell them. This goes a longer way than hiding behind a phone.

 

[OOZMAN]

This year we cranked out 3 songs...

You're kidding right? Our singer and I write about 3 each per month... 3 in a year is... very not good, for lack of non-offensive words.

...I told them how I felt last night by text...

Never do that.

buy a cheap pawn-shop bass and smash it at your next practice session. just act casual at first,... then, right in the middle of a song go wild. then without a word..., just walk out! get into your car, do a few donuts and speed off.
next time you see them act like nothing happened. if they inquire about your behavior, tell 'em how you really feel. be honest and maybe even shed a tear or two.
i'm not sure it will help, but it will make their day.

I literally spoke the words "what the f***" when I read that. What is the point of that? I guess it'd be fun though.

 

[iri5hpunk21]

Ok, on the having wrote 3 songs in a year thing, i don't wanna come off as hoity toity or anything, but our first song has no repeating parts and is about 7 min long. our songs tend to be on the longer side and we're all perfectionists so we never finish it till we feel it's right.

I don't really think that having the ability to crank out 50 bajillion songs in a year is really a desirable quality...

 

[Stumbo]

Ok, on the having wrote 3 songs in a year thing, i don't wanna come off as hoity toity or anything, but our first song has no repeating parts and is about 7 min long. our songs tend to be on the longer side and we're all perfectionists so we never finish it till we feel it's right.

I don't really think that having the ability to crank out 50 bajillion songs in a year is really a desirable quality...

3 songs x 7 min = 21 min. x 3 = 63min.

Based on your 3 songs per year (7 min per song data) to have enough material for an hour set would take you about 3 years. You only need 9 songs to fill the hour. A two hour set will take you six years to finish. Once you're realistic about the math, you'll be old men before you get any thing done or even to go a gig. Seems a bit much to me. I dunno.

I wonder how many hours it took your group to get the 3 songs down? Sound like you write the songs as a group so you guys write,practice and rehearse together.

If that's your method, that's fine, but knowing that, sounds like your group should be writing/practicing/rehearsing at least 10 hours a week since that time would also take some of the time away from having to practice the songs at home.

Since you and your bandmates have now agreed to spend the weekends writing/practicing/rehearsing to the exclusion of everything else, would that be 10 hour days? 15 hour days? If you get together for 4 weekends at 20 hours per weekend...that's 80 hours for the month. If that's what it takes to get out another 2 or three songs, then, to me, your method is not efficient enough.

That kind of schedule cannot be maintained by people with day jobs and families.

IMO/IME, I say you get about 2 or 3 weekends out of them before everything blows up, one way or another.

Good luck.

 

[Stumbo]

No man. If you're a General, Sheriff, or the President, you can do stuff to people but you cannot make them change. Even if you're a drill sergeant at basic training, you cannot make them change. You hope to have enough control over their life and surroundings that they CHOOSE to change their ways, and everyone is better off.

But nobody, anywhere, can make another person change.

Revised:

As Sheriff, General or President, you can order people do what you want them to do.

 

[aurian4parker]

I got 99 problems but bandmates ain't one...or more than one. Drop em brotha. Move on

 

[Lazylion]

...they told their family and friends that we are locking down the next few months' worth of weekends for band only activities

The next few months include Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. And Valentine's Day. Worst possible time of year to try to increase band-related activities IME.

With all due respect... good luck with that.

 

[pukeorama]

Ok, on the having wrote 3 songs in a year thing, i don't wanna come off as hoity toity or anything, but our first song has no repeating parts and is about 7 min long. our songs tend to be on the longer side and we're all perfectionists so we never finish it till we feel it's right.

I don't really think that having the ability to crank out 50 bajillion songs in a year is really a desirable quality...

How old are just out of curiousity. I think most of the replys are comming from guys in their mid 20's or older and all of them are correct. Musicians dont have much time in their prime which is late teens to mid 20's after that things get harder as you take on responsibilities in life. Iam in my mid 20's and if i was playing with the guys you are I would have moved on much longer ago. Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music, man you gotta move up and play with people better or equal to you. Sure you got some good songs going right now but the ground base for the band dosent sound stable.

If there is a university or college near you take a jazz program or some kind of music program. Move away if you have to because then you will be able to socialize with musicians on your level then start another band. However; if these are your real good buddies maybe stick around and finish your studio project and jam for fun with them. You can also start another project with serious musicians at the time. Use that time as casual hangout time with instruments, mess around and party. That way you still have your buddies and you can have a serious project. When you have decided what to do just say it to them if have already done it then they have no choice but to accept it really.

Sorry man you got yourself a tough one to deal with. Just remember people can turn your back on but music cant, it will always be there for you. I wish you luck for the future and I hope everything turns out the way you want it to.

 

[bassguitar808]

Unless you're doing some super complex math rock or symphonic metal, You should be writing three songs a week
They won't all be good , but it's way better to have a prolific catalog of originals to mine when you're going to record or play a show...

Nothing wrong with finding a more committed band to play with, even in another style, challenge yourself!

You can improve your chops, and still jam with those guys when they're not being slack.

 

[iri5hpunk21]

I'm 22, and I do play with other bands. There aren't many bands in my area that can a) play well b) play the type of music I want to play tastefully. This band also has studio time set with a top notch studio and many other resources. We started in HS, and some of us have gone off to college only allowing for weekend practices typically. Despite having had the problems we've been having lately I am still happy with these guys. We make great music together, whether its at the pace everyone else thinks it should be or not.

I'm actually starting to wonder if maybe its just me being overly ocd with deadlines and over reacting. Thanks for all your input

 

[sound of bass]

IMO, they need to find balance in their lives and not put off the band or the family.

What happens after the "next few months"?

IMO, if you're looking for long-term commitment, I wouldn't have them doing any one thing to the exclusivity of the other.

IME, ignoring the needs of their families will last, maybe, a few weeks or so. When problems arise, they will always choose family.

I suggest making a rehearsal schedule that they all can live with and still have time with their families.

IME, they are just saying what you want to hear so you won't quit.

Only time will tell.

Dang! You're a smart guy Ken. Great assessment.

 

[R Baer]

I've seen a lot of bands over the years make it to some level or another of success. Some of these bands I thought were really talented and had great songs and others I thought sucked, but one thing all the bands had in common was their willingness to work their asses off and do whatever it takes to make it in a very ruthless industry. This is one tough business and your band is going to have to really step it up if you hope to achieve any level of success.

I was playing clubs on the Sunset Strip at the same time that bands like Van Halen, Ratt, Poison, etc.. were all struggling LA bands as well. Let me tell you that those guys didn't just get "lucky", they made it because they had the talent and the tenacity to work at it 24/7. If they weren't practicing or gigging, they were handing out flyers at gigs and plastering posters all over town.

If your goal is to be in an original band and be a "rock star" then anything less than 100% full dedication ain't going to cut it. If your band members aren't as committed as you are, move on.