I Just Don't Understand Fender!

[Lowness]

Doc, I also thought the Dimension is a great sounding bass. But I remember when I saw the youtube videos, my reaction was: "These sounds fantastic, and the single H 5-string version is a worthy opponent to dish it out with the StingRay5. And they're not gonna last. They'll be discontinued in a couple of years!"

It's the players. They just won't accept them.

There are a lot of motherhood comments here.

Quarterly / short term views of companies: these are generally driven by the actions of shareholders / the market, which in turn are driven by the lack of information. Quarterlies become important because they are the only update a market has - in the absence of more information, the quarter view is the best guidance to the future. Those that pronounce Japanese companies as correct for having long term views and Western companies as wrong for having short term views are naively simplifying a very complex situation.

Btw, Fender is very unlikely to have these short-term quarterly pressures - it is a private company and the shareholders probably have full information disclosure, hence won't have a need to make needless quarterly pressures.

The possible failing of Dimension: even if the Dimension bass fails, Fender will have achieved a better range of basses than any other brand. Sandberg, Sadowsky, Musicman, Fodera Ibanez, Gibson, Mike Hull all pretty much rely on one or two main types of bass platform, which often come from Fender designs (in this argument , I am excluding many of the unique boutique designs which exist more as pieces of art rather than a sustainable bass platform - often European). Even if the Dimension Bass fails, Fender will have 4 sustainable commercial platforms - more than anyone else . If Dimension does fail, perhaps it draws a line in the sand which states that there are two commercial bass platforms - modern (MM) and traditional (P-Bass, J-Bass) and a company just can't bridge the two (Music Man seems to have not even bothered with being traditional).

I hope I am wrong as I love the look of the D-Bass, though I haven't played one.

 

[Rocky]

Back in the day, we simply put up with heavy basses much more than today. I'm glad you made a profit. I traded a vintage Stingray around 1987 for next to nothing. Thank goodness it only cost me $250!

I didn't even know what the bass was when my friend asked me if I wanted his old bass as he had bought a new one for recording. I was almost certain it would be some very inexpensive instrument that I could have some fun playing around with experimenting with different pick ups, etc., and so I just said sure I'll take it.. Then he pulled out this old Stingray, and I told him it was worth some cash, but he wanted me to have it. Later on I actually tried to give it back three times before I sold it because it was a gift, but he would not take it back. For whatever its worth I love my 2007 4H way more than that vintage model or even the new classics. I prefer the 11" radius, the body contures for not only comfort but reduced weight, I like the compensating nut, jumbo frets, and the bullet proof polly finish. It weights about the same as a Jazz bass, and is just more comfortable than the others in my opinion, but I digress.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

There are a lot of motherhood comments here.

Quarterly / short term views of companies: these are generally driven by the actions of shareholders / the market, which in turn are driven by the lack of information. Quarterlies become important because they are the only update a market has - in the absence of more information, the quarter view is the best guidance to the future. Those that pronounce Japanese companies as correct for having long term views and Western companies as wrong for having short term views are naively simplifying a very complex situation.

Btw, Fender is very unlikely to have these short-term quarterly pressures - it is a private company and the shareholders probably have full information disclosure, hence won't have a need to make needless quarterly pressures.

The possible failing of Dimension: even if the Dimension bass fails, Fender will have achieved a better range of basses than any other brand. Sandberg, Sadowsky, Musicman, Fodera Ibanez, Gibson, Mike Hull all pretty much rely on one or two main types of bass platform, which often come from Fender designs (in this argument , I am excluding many of the unique boutique designs which exist more as pieces of art rather than a sustainable bass platform - often European). Even if the Dimension Bass fails, Fender will have 4 sustainable commercial platforms - more than anyone else . If Dimension does fail, perhaps it draws a line in the sand which states that there are two commercial bass platforms - modern (MM) and traditional (P-Bass, J-Bass) and a company just can't bridge the two (Music Man seems to have not even bothered with being traditional).

I hope I am wrong as I love the look of the D-Bass, though I haven't played one.

Nice analysis, but what do you mean by "motherhood."

 

[Lowness]

Nice analysis, but what do you mean by "motherhood."

Motherhood statements are broad statements that sound great and that are hard to deny, but, if you scratch slightly below the surface, really say nothing or are too general to have meaning.

A classic is from politicians each election: we must grow jobs.

 

[One Drop]

Fender is diluting their brand with too many cheap versions of their flagship products and too many simple variations that are transparently money-grabs. I'd guess that they've gotten so big that they are stuck in the "executive churn" problem I've seen at several companies; That is - a new exec takes over a division / line, has new ideas and runs it for a couple of years... until he gets a promotion/headhunted - then all those ideas / product lines are swept aside when the new guy comes in.

I'm actually very happy with Fender's core MIA products - their basic US Made instruments are, in my opinion, the best they've ever made. They still aren't Lakland or Sadowsky - but they're not trying to be those guys.

Interesting points, I know nothing about the whose who at at management level, but I don't see a company lurching from one strategy to another or making sweeping or highly visible product line changes that reflect management changes.

Their experiments with direct sales for the US market are interesting and probably necessary, and their heavy handed treatment of authorized resellers probably necessary, if unpleasant.

I'm mostly impressed by the quality of their core lines and I think they are managing them well.

The rest is necessary these days IMO and I have no way of judging if they are actually profitable for them or not in and of themselves. I doubt these myriad products really have an impact on the perception of the brand by the larger market - we are not typical consumers because we know so much about the brand and the history.

In Europe, probably one of their most profitable markets, you tend to see Squiers, Standards, AVs, RWs, and CS instruments, which are all core products with a pretty intelligent price and perceived quality differentiation. Americans probably expect more models and have more big box stores with lots of display space to fill up, and the constant release of new models probably works for them there.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Good points, I know nothing about the whose who at the top.

I'm mostly impressed by the quality of their core lines and I think they are managing them well.

The rest is necessary these days IMO and I have no way of judging if they are actually profitable for them or not in and of themselves. I doubt these myriad products really have an impact on the perception of the brand by the larger market - we are not typical consumers because we know so much about the brand and the history.

In Europe, probably one of their most profitable markets, you tend to see Squiers, Standards, AVs, RWs, and CS instruments, which are all core products with a pretty intelligent price and perceived quality differentiation. Americans probably expect more models and have more big box stores with lots of display space to fill up, and the constant release of new models probably works for them there.

Actually, Guitar Center, the biggest Fender Retailer has become much more budget oriented since the 2008 recession. GC still carried Deluxe Models and other expensive Fenders, but Squier and Mexican Fenders are their mainstays.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Markjazzbassist did have point about me worrying about the availability of the Dimensions when my goal this summer is really to put in some quality practice time. To get back on track, I spent an extended period of time working on my double thumb and flat picking techniques. A high end bass sounds cheap if your skills are entry level!

 

[One Drop]

Actually, Guitar Center, the biggest Fender Retailer has become much more budget oriented since the 2008 recession. GC still carried Deluxe Models and other expensive Fenders, but Squier and Mexican Fenders are their mainstays.

That was partly my point.

We here love the pricey models and generally feel that Fender would do well to stick to them only, and the Squiers only as entry level product, but it would be suicide for them.

 

[markjazzbassist]

The fact of the matter is that I already have a Squier Dimension V. There is an excellent chance that this thread will end with just me talking like 90% of the threads I start. Most of my threads are just me sharing my thoughts because I have not found a pot of money to make up for no summer school.

i hear you man. i went from 5 basses, 2 full stacks and a studio amp with a full pedalboard with multiple DI's to record. all gone to 1 bass, 1 amp, 1 tuner. being broke ain't fun cheese i hear you man, got bills piling up over here.

 

[Edmang]

I was talking to my local dealer from whom I bought my Squier Dimension V, inquiring about getting an American Deluxe V single H. The salesman called Fender, and told him that the only single H model still being made is the Squier. I will double check about the MIM single H Dimension, that bass did not have sound I liked in the American or Squier single H models. Maybe the single H just didn't sell at all, but I think the five string version, especially, was a real Stingray killer.

Seems there is a new root beer color out for the American Deluxe Dimensions, including the single H V. Invalid Link Removed

Certainly seems they are still being made.

Personally, not a fan of the color, but probably someone will like it.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Seems there is a new root beer color out for the American Deluxe Dimensions, including the single H V. Invalid Link Removed

Certainly seems they are still being made.

Personally, not a fan of the color, but probably someone will like it.

That's good news! It would be nice to have one some day.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I was at the music store today killing time while my daughter was having her saxophone repaired. I checked out a Fender Dimension Deluxe IV and compared it to my Squier Dimension V. I asked them about them to call and check on the availability of the Dimension Deluxe V, and they said it was indeed discontinued.
Once again, the Fender has a nicer preamp, and is closer to the true Stingray sound than the Squier, but the Squier is very nice, and works just fine for me.