I know I said it before, but study kills GAS!

[Dr. Cheese]

I have to ask... are you a gigging musician?

I assume that you are.

So after 40 years what are you taking lessons for?

What is it that you specifically want to improve?

A good friend of mine who plays guitar did something similar but he went for a specific reason where he thought he was lacking.

He wanted to improve his lead guitar playing as well as to be able to work out lead parts for new arrangements of songs as well as for original songs in his band.

When he felt he got to where he wanted to be he ended the lessons.

I am really happy with my current teacher.

My previous teachers were all guitar players who played guitar in the bands they were in. They all had regular non-music daytime jobs. Although I did learn some things from them I didn’t feel assured I was learning from someone actually qualified professally

My current teacher earns 100 % of his living from music. I wanted to learn notation which was something my previous teachers couldn’t do.

I also wanted to learn some prog and fusion songs which my other teachers weren’t familiar with at all.

Don’t hesitate to change teachers.

I was originally mainly a bedroom bassist who played at an occasional jam or talent
show. I played in a funk band for a while, and used to play standards a bit with an older pianist who is now deceased. For the past 24 or 25 years, I have mainly accompanied Gospel choirs.

I am taking lessons to become more literate in music and actually know What I am right now just playing by ear without knowledge.

When I was down, my teacher made the point that I have been playing (and getting paid) for years. I clearly have figured something out over all this time.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

About a month ago, I was at my lesson, slogging through the first three bars of Jaco’s “River People.” My teacher wanted to hear how I practiced at home. After listening to me, he tore me a new one; pointing out how my raking persists, he criticized my intonation, thumb position on the back of the neck, my poor time, etc. Later, I found myself thinking that if I have made so little progress in two years, maybe I am too set in my ways, and I should quit my lessons. I am 90-95% self taught for over forty years. Maybe I should accept where I am. After a supportive pm with Mr. OB (TB member and Fender fan) and some text messagess with my teacher, I decided to fumble along, the best I can.

The one thing that never crossed my mind was how great another bass would be. No marvelous boutique Jazz will give me better time. No awesome Dingwall will improve my sight reading. No new rig will make me clean up my left hand technique. To be honest, my lust for gear had largely subsided when I decided to buy a DJ5 instead of a Sadowsky, but that tough assessment of my teacher really hit home that I needed to be a better bassist, not buy a better bass.

I just felt like sharing that, especially for any younger musician who might be side tracked into thinking “if I only had ____.”

Bingo.

 

[Grahams Groove]

I was originally mainly a bedroom bassist who played at an occasional jam or talent

If bedroom bassist means playing to recordings (along with the occasional jams, etc.) that makes a good deal of sense with the metronome seeming a bit more difficult to lock. Click tracks have been around for a long time, but there are major recordings from the last 50 years that drag or speed up. Whether that's more or less perceptible is sort of irrelevant in my mind. If you've been playing to stuff that moves a bit (and with people that most certainly 'move' a bit), then that's been the rule more than the exception.

 

[rollie 55]

hi Doc

You' re right. Only playing and practice will make you a good bassplayer.

Staying at home practicing keeps you away from stores.

But….



… can lead to a huge GAS attack for fretless!

greetings

Wise

fretless thats me done then

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I would add that being inspired by really fine instrument can motivate you to practice more. I know it did for me when i was younger.

A player has to have the mindset of study to really appreciate a nice bass. It is easy to end up fancying lots of gear without actually putting in the work to really improve as a player.

 

[glocke1]

The thing I do not understand is that I lock instantly with drums or I can play fine with a track. Metronomes are really hard for me.

I've found that in order for me to work with metronomes, I have to use them regularly, as in almost every time i sit down with my bass. If a few days go by of no metronome, it takes longer for me to lock in with it, so anymore I try to spend at least 5-10 minutes doing something.

Things that helped me were:

keeping the click on the one only, or even every other one, 2&4, only, 1&3 only, on 3, etc...sometimes I even "dumb it down" and and just play simple stuff to wherever the click is, such as going through the cycle of fourths just playing roots, than arpeggios, etc...etc...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'd have left there immediately. Just how many lessons do you have with a "teacher" before he critisizes you for things that should have been properly addressed on the first or second lesson?
Doesn't make total sense to me.
I am also puzzled by the fact that you're playing Jaco stuff, yet your technique is so poor. Worst teacher ever. You don't throw Jaco at me without some decent fundamental
teaching in the first place.

I am glad I reread your post. My teacher has pointed out my shortcomings from the beginning. I have been trying to improve. I think it is just hard for someone who has played as me to change. To top it off, I am a grown man with a wife, kids, and career. I am at a point in life that I cannot do four or five hours of shedding.

I am learning Jaco because I asked about it. I recently got a new copy of Jazz Patterns for Bass Clef Instruments. I am pretty sure I will be doing a lot more exercises and fewer tunes for a while.

 

[Rapisme]

Teachers I had a few and like Doc I had one that chewed me out in a vile way but, it taught me something to keep an eye out cause after that tirade I went out and found me another one.
What I found after several other instructors was the one I stayed with and learned the most from was a doubler with all the education one could ask for! So between him having one upright and one five string electric and a WW and a Bagend 115. That’s where I learned that Time not Gear was the focus. I learned more from that man in a year than from previous years before. This is not a knock on some of my other teachers but he was the one that worked best for me.
And yes Gear wasn’t the focus, staff paper, theory, time, and practice was the goal!

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I would like to thank everyone who posted on this thread. I got lots of encouragement, good suggestions, and solid criticism. As I have said in the past, if I had the means to gift a young bassist. I am certain that giving she or he a $300 amp, a $300 bass, and $1,500 worth of lessons at $30 an hour will than any $600 amp and $2,400 bass. I will go to my grave annoyed that I did not seriously embrace lessons until I was within a decade of retirement, but I am also grate to God that my body and mind are strong to see improvement from practice a month before my 59th birthday. I am going to slow that metronome down to maybe forty and work on River People an hour or two tonight.

 

[dhagopian]

Hmm. I took formal lessons in college for years and was always taught TO rake. Weird.

Yeah I was also going to question that... Rufus Philpot also teaches me TO rake. Not sure what the problem with it is...

 

[dhagopian]

I am going to slow that metronome down to maybe forty and work on River People an hour or two tonight.

Careful to slow it down too much... I also have to work on things a bit slower than the actual piece but I've also found there's a point where if you slow it down too much it actually gets harder because the feel can become really whacky if that makes sense.

 

[ContraGuitar]

Other people have mentioned practicing with a metronome and I'll share my experience as a classical guitar player who is trying to learn the contra/bass guitar.

Last summer, I had a masterclass with a classical guitarist who is in one of the top classical guitar duos in the world. Their sense of time is nothing short of amazing. At one point, the topic of metronomes came up and I asked him how often he practiced with a metronome. His response was, every single practice session! I was stunned, as I did not think that would be the case.

So, I took his advice to heart, went home, and bolted a Boss DB-90 metronome to my music stand. I resolved to end my hit or miss technique of playing with a metronome once in a while, and to practice with a metronome every day. I have to say, I think I have improved quite a bit in the last six months, and I credit my improvement to playing with a metronome.

I don't believe anybody is born with a sense of time, it is a learned skill, and practicing with a metronome is how we learn time. Also, the metronome helps me learn that it is better to play the wrong note in time than the right note late.

As far as instruments, they're probably only five or ten percent of the equation, I think. I know players are always looking for a better instrument but I think it is important to spend a number of years with one instrument in order to learn its sound before trading up. I'm kind of talking about the acoustic world here, though.

 

[bherman]

The thing I do not understand is that I lock instantly with drums or I can play fine with a track. Metronomes are really hard for me.

One other observation from watching your video again is how much effort you spend on watching your fingers and hand position on the neck, wonder if that's throwing you off? FWIW, sometimes when I am practicing rhythm (for example I am spending alot of effort now on improving my bowing skills on upright bass), I do alot of exercises that are all open string and just focus on rhythm and timing (i.e., nothing at all on left hand). One example is Rusu Reid's "The Evolving Bassist". The book has like a 20 pg etude that's nothing but open strings, ranging from whole notes alway up to sixteenths, triplets, and sextuplets. This really makes you focus on counting. It's a bit tedious but very effective. Play through that once a day for a few weeks (with a metronome) and that gets me locked in. Its intended for both upright and electric bass.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

One other observation from watching your video again is how much effort you spend on watching your fingers and hand position on the neck, wonder if that's throwing you off? FWIW, sometimes when I am practicing rhythm (for example I am spending alot of effort now on improving my bowing skills on upright bass), I do alot of exercises that are all open string and just focus on rhythm and timing (i.e., nothing at all on left hand). One example is Rusu Reid's "The Evolving Bassist". The book has like a 20 pg etude that's nothing but open strings, ranging from whole notes alway up to sixteenths, triplets, and sextuplets. This really makes you focus on counting. It's a bit tedious but very effective. Play through that once a day for a few weeks (with a metronome) and that gets me locked in. Its intended for both upright and electric bass.

Rufus Reid, The Evolving Bassist, I think I remember seeing adds for that in Downbeat. My teacher is a doubler, if he had it, He will photocopy the pages for me.

 

[CallMeAl]

I suppose there's a quality threshold; if a bass is so crappy it cant be properly setup, an upgrade would help. But I guess that's not really "GAS" now is it?

I'm on a parts bass with a peavey neck, and I find myself still GASing for a fender neck. I dont know why, I chose this neck out of 5 or 6, and it even beat out 2 VM necks. I have to remind myself often that it wont improve my playing. Thanks for the perspective Doc!

I also have to remind myself time spent on TB is time I could be practicing...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Study might kill gear acquisition syndrome (gas), but gas often inspires and facilitates study and innovation. Jaco invented the fretless bass guitar (or at least put it on the map) because of his gas for the achieving the tone in his head. The irony in your thread is that you are playing a Pentabuzz, a bass that you likely had major gas for. Of further irony is that Mark Egan worked with Mike Pedulla to nail that Jaco tone in a new, unique, ergonomic, playable instrument.

Of further irony is that you are working on the Jaco line in River People using the Pedulla, inspired by Jaco tone. More irony? Folks care enough to share ideas regarding your quest with excellent examples: Obviously, all of this gas for tone, facility, and ability cannot be attained simply by buying a certain bass. However, buying a certain bass can definitely inspire one to play and improve. So, enjoy your Pedulla, a bass worthy of ending gas, and keep working on your craft. There is only upside here. Finally, savor your journey while you still have the gas to make the trip.

• PS Practice that line with a metronome or drum track to find some added enjoyment and rhythm structure/clarity
• PPS Jaco's technique is rake intensive
• PPPS Use software like Amazing Slow Downer to make a loop of the line you're working on. Slow the loop down and play it over and over until you get it. 15 minutes, 15 hours, whatever. Do it until you get it, then speed it up. Expand the loop when you can play at or above tempo

I bought that Pedulla with the express intention of shedding for a year or two so I can be competent on fretless. Even though I bought that bass dirt cheap at a pawnshop, it is too fine of an instrument to own and not be able to play well. I already have good intonation playing Gospel, or popular music. I am a crappy reader, so my playing written music, or even harder music I know can be rough.

 

[somebrains]

I love the way this dude owns 2 basses, and his YouTube channel is a journal of his practice.

 

[InhumanResource]

Yeah I was also going to question that... Rufus Philpot also teaches me TO rake. Not sure what the problem with it is...

There's no problem. I have some questions about this teacher given the interaction our good doc described.

 

[retslock]

Gotta say, whatever tone settings you've plugged in with that there bass, it sounds mighty fine. I know instruments have different feel and all, but sound-wise, that's a juicy one.

Seeing you mention the metronome thing, this song is one that looks straightforward on paper but is not at all straightforward to the ear. I haven't grown the stones to tackle it yet but hey, 2019; maybe I'll follow suit! Sounds like you wanna play a good bit faster than the metronome, so slowing down will be a pain...but maaan will it be worth it.

Sidenote, I just ran a recording session two days ago with a nice young guitarist singer who had trouble with spaces not playing, and it reminded me those are just as hard as parts where we are playing. Looking forward to seeing how this cut develops while you're working on it!

I agree. It seems to be a less understood concept that it is the space between notes that makes music interesting. Why? Because it takes a creative decision to establish where that space occurs and for how long. You can grab notes but you can’t grab space. All the technique in the world will not give you an understanding of where and how space should be applied. You can learn but it relies on your creative self.
This idea is true of time and pitch.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Yeah I was also going to question that... Rufus Philpot also teaches me TO rake. Not sure what the problem with it is...

Scott of Scott’s bass lessons encourages raking too. My insist that constant alternating fingers is superior. The funny thing I had no idea I raked so much. Sometimes, I intentionally rake, but I thought I did finger per fret most of the time.