No pun intended!
River People is a very hard bassline to play cleanly and evenly. To maintain it for the full song is quite a feat. Can your teacher do it?
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I know I said it before, but study kills GAS!
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
No pun intended!
River People is a very hard bassline to play cleanly and evenly. To maintain it for the full song is quite a feat. Can your teacher do it?
That's what Dave LaRue taught, too. First words he said to me was "Alternate fingers only. There will be no raking." And it was for a reason. Raking when doing complex stuff can slow you down and make you play inaccurately. So my advice is "Know when to rake, and when to alternate."
Doc Cheese, you are a better man than I. You are willing and able to take lessons and put some effort into becoming a better player and musician. Don’t worry about small bumps in the road.
Self doubt is part of the process. Keep at it!
Self doubt is part of the process. Keep at it!
No pun intended!
River People is a very hard bassline to play cleanly and evenly. To maintain it for the full song is quite a feat. Can your teacher do it?
It took him a day to get up to speed, but he can do it.
Here is a little something I recorded with the Garage Band ap on my iPad. I wanted to show I can keep time with drums much easier than I can with a metronome.
I teach and I have never stopped taking lessons as long as I've been playing, so I've been on both ends of the tough love.
I think the advice I'd give you is to keep this buying and selling of objects separate in your mind from your development as a musician. I know that its hard because you probably think of your identity as being a bass player, and to play bass you need a bass, and everyone wants the nicest bass they can have, but owning things and having skills are two completely separate things. I know there are a lot of people who are collectors of basses and amps, and really enjoy their collections, and they're really eager to point out how having a better bass or amp will can have some kind of impact on your playing. There's some truth in that, I guess. Playing a really great instrument can make you happy, but its more about finding the objects that fit you, not finding objects that are just so filled with virtue (like because they were expensive, or well made, or made from exotic wood, or whatever) that you become better just by having them. The instrument that makes you sound the best may be a piece of junk. Doesn't matter.
I know, from years of working my tail off, challenging myself to play increasingly difficult parts, or to better understand harmony, or to improve my arranging or sight reading or whatever; the times when I let myself get most fixated on buying some new thing are usually when I let myself get lazy about my studies. its easy to do. hell, sometimes it helps to take a couple weeks off from studying. but its a trap to start imagining that the thing which is keeping you from achieving your potential is a physical object that you need to own. thats just not how it works.
anyway about your teacher laying into you. I let myself get fat a few years back, I wound up with a trainer. It was the best thing I ever did. He was an inspiring, earnest, supportive guy. I lost a ton of weight, got strong, but along the way, sometimes I stopped. I'd get comfortable at some point in my progress, even though I had room to improve. He didn't yell at me, but he'd bring in this weight vest, and he'd pack it with lead bars so that when I put it on, I was back at my original weight. He never said a word about it, we'd just do the regular workout with me wearing that vest. On more than one occasion I'd puke part way through those workouts. I got over that habit of getting comfortable.
So yeah, a teacher should inspire you, but sometimes inspiration doesn't appear as hugs and rainbows and happiness. sometimes its just gritty, ugly truth.
anyway keep at it. I've been taking lessons since I was 12, even after I started teaching, myself. I can't imagine ever stopping.
I think the advice I'd give you is to keep this buying and selling of objects separate in your mind from your development as a musician. I know that its hard because you probably think of your identity as being a bass player, and to play bass you need a bass, and everyone wants the nicest bass they can have, but owning things and having skills are two completely separate things. I know there are a lot of people who are collectors of basses and amps, and really enjoy their collections, and they're really eager to point out how having a better bass or amp will can have some kind of impact on your playing. There's some truth in that, I guess. Playing a really great instrument can make you happy, but its more about finding the objects that fit you, not finding objects that are just so filled with virtue (like because they were expensive, or well made, or made from exotic wood, or whatever) that you become better just by having them. The instrument that makes you sound the best may be a piece of junk. Doesn't matter.
I know, from years of working my tail off, challenging myself to play increasingly difficult parts, or to better understand harmony, or to improve my arranging or sight reading or whatever; the times when I let myself get most fixated on buying some new thing are usually when I let myself get lazy about my studies. its easy to do. hell, sometimes it helps to take a couple weeks off from studying. but its a trap to start imagining that the thing which is keeping you from achieving your potential is a physical object that you need to own. thats just not how it works.
anyway about your teacher laying into you. I let myself get fat a few years back, I wound up with a trainer. It was the best thing I ever did. He was an inspiring, earnest, supportive guy. I lost a ton of weight, got strong, but along the way, sometimes I stopped. I'd get comfortable at some point in my progress, even though I had room to improve. He didn't yell at me, but he'd bring in this weight vest, and he'd pack it with lead bars so that when I put it on, I was back at my original weight. He never said a word about it, we'd just do the regular workout with me wearing that vest. On more than one occasion I'd puke part way through those workouts. I got over that habit of getting comfortable.
So yeah, a teacher should inspire you, but sometimes inspiration doesn't appear as hugs and rainbows and happiness. sometimes its just gritty, ugly truth.
anyway keep at it. I've been taking lessons since I was 12, even after I started teaching, myself. I can't imagine ever stopping.
Buying more gear has ceased to be an issue for me. I have pro level gear already. I just want to improve as a musician.
There's been so many things said, I might be repeating someone else.
But just by watching your video I saw many things that could help you. Yet I don't know if your teacher can see them and if he do, how is he helping you overcome these problematic.
Yet there is this idea that you either teach people what they want or what you think is good for them. I like to say you should teach them what they need through what they like...
As much as I don't like saying so have you consider having another teacher?
But just by watching your video I saw many things that could help you. Yet I don't know if your teacher can see them and if he do, how is he helping you overcome these problematic.
Yet there is this idea that you either teach people what they want or what you think is good for them. I like to say you should teach them what they need through what they like...
As much as I don't like saying so have you consider having another teacher?
rodw
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- Jan 11, 2019
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- Cofounder at FATpick, an app for learning guitar & bass by playing along with your favorite songs.
> I needed to be a better bassist, not buy a better bass.
You're not wrong, but don't underestimate the "stickiness" of a setup that's a joy to play.
Maybe it's just my ADHD talking, but I think there's a balance. You should resist the temptation to continuously upgrade, but sometimes a new "toy" (even just a different type of strings) can really help you stay engaged with practicing and playing.
You're not wrong, but don't underestimate the "stickiness" of a setup that's a joy to play.
Maybe it's just my ADHD talking, but I think there's a balance. You should resist the temptation to continuously upgrade, but sometimes a new "toy" (even just a different type of strings) can really help you stay engaged with practicing and playing.
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yeah man I hear that- a few years ago I had this realization that my upright playing was just so weak that I needed to make a choice about whether to just put the instrument away, or to really devote myself to the study. Double bass is one of those things where so much of what you can do depends on how adjusted you are to your bass and bow, even little things like how you set your endpin and your stand.
So anyway, I found the best teacher I could get, and man it was just brutal. This guy only has so many slots for students, and I am pretty sure that I was absolutely the worst student in his schedule. Most of the stuff he gave me to do, I literally couldn't physically do. I have a job and a family and stuff, so there's a limit on how much I could practice, but I was putting as much time into it as I could, and still not getting anywhere. I quit that teacher because I felt like I was wasting his time, but I kept working on that stuff. Then I got hooked up with one of his students about a year later and worked with him for about 4 months, same thing, not getting there. So I found another guy, we started from like page 1 in Simandl I. We didn't move to page 2 until I had page 1 cold. I spent two years with that guy, a page at a time. I'm now ready to start going back to the student of teacher 1, and in a couple more years I might be ready to back to teacher 1. I figure by the time I'm in my 70s I'll be a killer.
It's just one of those things, everybody grows at a different rate, and its not really how fast you learn or how far you go- its your trajectory. You're either up, or you're flat. As long are you're going up, nothing else matters man
good luck and keep at it!
You guys need to lighten up on this teacher some. Remember, you are basing your comments on the Good Dr’s description of the session. Now keep yer pants on, I’m NOT saying the Good Dr made an unfair description, but that stuff is always hard to hear and take in. If the Good Dr has taken the instructor’s advice to heart as he said he did, it could be a good thing.
Frankly, I find that at 60, I crave that kind of instructor these days. I’d love to find one to analyze my playing and tear it down to start over and build it back up. And I have enough perspective to take the criticism constructively and improve my playing.
If you aren’t in the frame of mind to improve your playing, then I doubt you’ll agree with what I said. Well, that’s fine. I know what I need, the Good Dr knows what he needs, and you can figure out what you need.
When I first started playing bass, my son was taking guitar lessons. I brought my bass to one of his classes and the teacher played it. It sounded amazing! The instructor passed me the bass and I played it. It sounded... well... like me, which was less than amazing. It was clear to me that buying better gear would not help me sound better. I needed to learn how to play better. As long as my equipment is decent enough, which the instructor showed, the rest is up to me!
It can be fun to try out different gear to help you find that "sound", but you will always be you. That is the best part of tying out different to gear. You get to help bring out the "you" that you want others to hear.
It can be fun to try out different gear to help you find that "sound", but you will always be you. That is the best part of tying out different to gear. You get to help bring out the "you" that you want others to hear.
This is good advice. My eyes were opened when I saw a YT video using the metronome on 2 & 4 - the natural snare placement for most popular music, rather than 4 to the bar. This seems to make it easier to stay in time with somehow.
By the way, raking is and always has been a deliberate part of my playing style. I don’t intend to stop doing it cause it works for me.
I’m just wondering if Larry Graham had a teacher all those years ago, what might they have said about his technique.
In my experience it's easier to be right on time with a drummer for at least two reasons:
- It gives you way more timing clues than just the beat.
- If you play with a human drummer you can adapt to each other. The beauty and the frustration of studying with a metronome comes exactly from the fact that he is a perfect but stubborn and unadaptable drummer.
I'm taking lessons about timing from a drummer and he suggested me a nice app that deals with look 1. : time guru. It is a metronome which you can configure to omit some beat randomly. It's hard but it helps a lot.
By the way my old teacher taught me timing using a drummer book. No job to do for the left hand. I was only playing the open the D string replicating what was written using a metronome as a reference.
By the way this was the book I used:
https://www.amazon.com/Methode-Batterie-Studies-Drums-I/dp/B001PF8J1G
It's kinda of a standard in Italy. You'll certainly could find an equivalent drum method in the us.
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Always.
Also, if a rake is there to get your left hand from one place to another, learn how to mute or ghost notes in the rake if you don't want to play them all. It might not be appropriate for the song if you are always playing all the notes in a rake.
I've never heard River People before. I know we don't know a lot about you or your teacher, but I'm not sure it's a great song to be on at this time. My suggestions for good rhythm workouts that help cement the beat and timing into your head would be Stevie Wonder's Sir Duke, I Wish, Another Star and Master Blaster.
Generally, a "better bass" is always a moot point. I'd say that there are 2 things you do when you are learning an instrument. First, you are fighting to overcome your limitations and inexperience. Second, you are fighting any limitations in unfamiliar equipment. IMO at this time a "better bass" is one that is easier to play. When I started, learners played basses that would be considered almost unplayable today. Learning to play a difficult instrument is never the best idea so get the best bass you can afford and work up to it. I found that even my Lull and Sadowsky were easier and better to play after a good set up.
On the subject of the bass, not the teacher, I find that all my basses sound good and play well, from the inexpensive ones to the MIA ones.
In part because I make them sound good: the way I play, the setup, the pickups I chose, the strings. Sometimes I make a tweak like different strings and improve the sound, so that’s not to say I couldn’t sound even better.
In part because they were good instruments to begin with and that’s why I bought them. All of that takes experience and I’ve gotten much better at it over the years.
My GAS tends to be for equipment I will use. Better IEM system, wireless etc. Still I’d like to get a left handed neck just to have a dusty hill looking bass, just because.
In part because I make them sound good: the way I play, the setup, the pickups I chose, the strings. Sometimes I make a tweak like different strings and improve the sound, so that’s not to say I couldn’t sound even better.
In part because they were good instruments to begin with and that’s why I bought them. All of that takes experience and I’ve gotten much better at it over the years.
My GAS tends to be for equipment I will use. Better IEM system, wireless etc. Still I’d like to get a left handed neck just to have a dusty hill looking bass, just because.
Hi Dr. Cheese! Thanks for sharing. I watched your video and I don't think you suck. I'm not an amazing bassist, I have no credentials but I love to play and that's what I think it is all about anyway. I am actually a competent musician- not great, competent, but one thing I can do is sell a performance and I'd like to share something I have learned about how come that is. Firstly, most people are not musicians so you have one up on most people the minute you begin a performance. You don't need to have great technique or mad skills but you do have to have "soul" which you already have in spades- most of us do. The trick is to tap into it and channel it out there. FEEL what you are grooving on and forget thinking while you are playing. Let the sound out of you without you in the way. Your brain and its thinking is getting in the way of your feel. I see you have the notes down in that vid so stop concentrating and let it flow baby! If nothing else, you will feel really good about your performance even if technically or sonically it sucked- which I'm guessing it won't. I watched you and I think you got this man-cause you want it, you got it! Sure, we need to practice because some things are difficult, and there are players who can really throw down so I'm not saying it is all about feeling it but if you don't feel it, ain't nobody else going to neither. Channel and flow man, channel and flow- "lose yourself in the moment, you own it". I know it sounds kinda new age bs'ish but it is the kinda stuff you can't teach.
+1. I remember a thread from years ago where the OP was telling us that learning on a hard-to-play bass with high action will pay off. He got universal condemnation for that one!
