I lost my cool with a bandmate.

[AllFifths]

I appreciate every comment. This thing is still shaking out so I think it's some beginning growing pains. We are all over the map stylistically. It started as an acoustic band, then we moved to a really nice practice space so we had room for drums. Then I decided we didn't need three acoustics strumming away, so I went to my preferred instrument, the bass. All of the sudden we had something resembling a real band and got pretty excited and got ahead of our skis a little. At least that's my diagnosis. That's a good suggestion above to build with simpler songs. We have a couple of country songs, and I see we have some CCR in the pipeline that could be confidence builders.

The rhythm guitarist has made comments about being the weak link, so I know he's aware. It's kind of crazy to hear people with similar experiences...

Yeah Man, it just sounds like you're passionate. It can be hard when people's passion go in different directions. Most of the time when people are saying "I have my own way" they're actually just being defensive "Let's perfect it and then look to doing it our own way" could be a response. Johnny Marr of the Smiths has a great story about jamming with Paul McCartney. He said because he looked up the Paul and figured he had the most knowledge he started to try and tell him the situation with the Smiths, looking for advice. Apparently Paul listened and then when he finished was like

"… Man… Bands…"

I'm sure it included head shaking!

 

[buldog5151bass]

A band has a purpose, though. Even if the purpose is just to have a good time, how are you supposed to do that if people aren't doing the minimum amount required to make actual music? It is absolutely not fun to show up at a rehearsal and find out that no one can play the material. What are you there for?

I wrote a long post about this last night and then didn't send it because I think people are tired of hearing me go off about this, but rehearsal is not a place where you waste everyone else's time to learn songs you had an entire week to learn on your own. If it's strictly a jam band where you're playing the same three or four chord songs that everyone has heard a million times, that's one thing. But if there is music to be learned, the time to learn it is before everyone gets together. Even if it's "just for fun" because knowing the music is a prerequisite for the fun to happen.

For me, if I were the OP, I would have been disappointed. I probably wouldn't have said anything, but I'd tuck that in the back of my mind as a red flag and if it keeps happening I'd be looking for someone else to play with.

Read my quote - I'm not saying the musical issues don't have to be addressed, I'm suggesting that OP get the guitarist in a spot where he will listen.

I've been in bands where if I didn't come to every rehearsal totally prepped, I would expect to be sacked - but this isn't the situation. It is a casual band with beginners. OP needs to have people listen to each other.

 

[LBS-bass]

I appreciate every comment. This thing is still shaking out so I think it's some beginning growing pains. We are all over the map stylistically. It started as an acoustic band, then we moved to a really nice practice space so we had room for drums. Then I decided we didn't need three acoustics strumming away, so I went to my preferred instrument, the bass. All of the sudden we had something resembling a real band and got pretty excited and got ahead of our skis a little. At least that's my diagnosis. That's a good suggestion above to build with simpler songs. We have a couple of country songs, and I see we have some CCR in the pipeline that could be confidence builders.

The rhythm guitarist has made comments about being the weak link, so I know he's aware. It's kind of crazy to hear people with similar experiences here. It's like you were in the room. Especially the part about "I play it this way--we can do our own version", which triggers my OCD. The particular song in question in this case is "Wish You Were Here". The leader is a Pink Floyd fan, and I thought, two acoustics, electric bass and drums...perfect. That song (as cliche as it is by now) still moves me, and I practiced to get the bass and vocals (I sing too). I wanted this one a little too badly, I guess. So when the rhythm guitarist shows up saying he just learned it that morning, and yes, started in about doing it "his way", and that even though the accents aren't the same, it's still in time, etc., I lost it little. The weird thing is, he really is sincere. He wants to get better. We have just come up against the limitations of ability pretty quickly. I need to research beginning rock/pop with a few open chords. I know there are countless like that.

I think you might need a sit down with everyone to make sure your expectations are on the same page. There are lots of people that don't realize that rehearsal shouldn't be learning time, it should be polishing time. The problems come in when someone, like you, works hard to get it right and then finds out that they've wasted their time because no one else is doing the work. And if they aren't learning material between rehearsals I guarantee they aren't practicing at all, either.

That's something to get out on the table early on. What expectations does everyone else have? Are there goals being set? Are the goals reasonable? If everyone knows what to work on each week and has time, are they getting it done or is it too much?

This shouldn't be a chore, so you need to figure out what the reasonable expectations are, even if it's just to learn one song each week. If you guys can talk that through it would be really useful; this is a fundamental band thing and making sure everyone knows what is expected is pretty important.

 

[LBS-bass]

Read my quote - I'm not saying the musical issues don't have to be addressed, I'm suggesting that OP get the guitarist in a spot where he will listen.

I've been in bands where if I didn't come to every rehearsal totally prepped, I would expect to be sacked - but this isn't the situation. It is a casual band with beginners. OP needs to have people listen to each other.

Right, which is why I think they need to have a talk. If no one knows what's expected of them and why, it usually turns into a problem.

 

[Mastermold]

We're not really in a band (at this point) just trying to build a small set list and have some fun playing in a no-pressure environment. Were all old dudes (and a dudette) having some fun (at least that's the idea).

Well, I actually work on this stuff at home and try to get it right. We all have varying degrees of talent/time/and inclination to work on this stuff. I guess I'm just here to get it off my chest that I told the rhythm player that what he was playing wasn't right, and it it's not right the rest will fall apart and it will be a train wreck. That rattled him and he said that he only really became familiar with his part two hours prior, and that he only considers himself a beginner guitar player anyway and how he didn't expect to hear "that isn't right...you're messing everything up" (referring to me) in an exaggerated accusatory impression of me obviously.

So anyway, I felt about this low and tried to make amends as the rehearsal went on to encourage him and say how much better it was sounding and "yeah, you got it now...you really held us together there, etc..."

I feel bad because I actually consciously TRY to remember that we are just there to have fun, but my ambition to be good and be right still got to me in a weak moment of frustration.

I may just not be a very good person for these situations. I have basically avoided playing with people most of my life. The thing is, I have sometimes been the weak link in a jam situation so I certainly empathize with this guy. He's being asked to play chord and rhythms he's not comfortable with, and that's the whole point here...to get better.

So this is not a defense of my actions, more like an opportunity to vent so I can stop beating myself up over it and try to use this whole endeavor to develop more patience with people and stop transferring how hard I can be on myself to others.

You should hear what we say to each other in my band! My drummer will hold his nose and point at you if you play something awful!

Honestly telling someone you don't like what they're playing or think they would do better playing a part differently is just part of the collaborative process IMO.

 

[JoshStevensBass]

You beat me to it! It's definitely all about managing expectations and just dealing with it like sensible people.

I've been the snapper in a very similar situation - we were a cover band playing a well paying gig with minimal time to rehearse and the guitarist was playing a few songs "his own way" and we just didn't have time to be play around with different parts. I wanted to play the songs like the record, he wanted to play the songs the only way he had time to learn them, so we compromised and learnt the songs his way to get through this gig (which was a success!). If we hadn't talked our situation out after the initial losing of tempers then the gig could have gone very differently!

 

[micguy]

I'm old - I've been playing a bunch of decades. I play in churches a lot, and most (not quite all) of the musicians I play with are younger than me. Part of what us oldsters are supposed to do is help the youngsters learn, so they can take over when we're no longer here. Actually, this is every bit as true at my job as it is as a musician, but I digress. Sometimes that means we "say it like it is", but before we do that bluntly, we should know how that young person takes such criticism - the first time you say something to the, it shouldn't be blunt - you gotta figure out if that approach is OK, and you gotta earn your way there over time. Constructive criticism is also not done in front of others - that's a recipe for a bad result.

It's not always easy encouraging young folks (some of us are much better than others), but in the end, it's a big part of why we're still here.

 

[mrcbass]

Especially the part about "I play it this way--we can do our own version", which triggers my OCD.

This is something you need to deal with collectively. Some "bands" like to make songs their own and there's nothing wrong with that (sometimes it's can't do note-for-note, and other times it's based on instrumentation or desire to spin it); some bands like to strive for "note-for-note" and that's OK too. And there there lots of variations in between. It just depends on your collective goal. If you're playing with individuals who have lesser desire to do the note-for note thing, you may get very frustrated very quickly - it's something worth talking about.

It sounds like this is sort of drifting towards a semi-serious project - you should really have a sit down with everyone and determine what is wanted: For example, I wouldn't want to be in a strict note-for-note band - I like to put my artistic vision on a song when it doesn't affect the groove - that's what is fun for me. So I'd probably find another game so you weren't fuming at me all the time.

No point in getting too much further down the road if people aren't all on the same page. IF it really is a "no goals, lets have fun" situation, then you need to accept it and be gentle with your criticism.

 

[GodPlayedBass]

The thing about being in a band is, you might have to work on one song for a month to get it air tight. Its a process, measure by measure.

 

[jthisdell]

I think musicians should be thick-skinned enough to take a little criticism if it is well intended, as this was. I have received my share and although it stings, you have to be honest enough with yourself to hear if there is validity. Unfortunately many (most?) are very thin skinned. I have zero problem playing with someone who may not be proficient but is actively working and trying to improve and zero interest in playing with someone who can play the part but will not put forth enough effort because they really do not care. Saying it is just for fun is fine but IMHO it is more fun if you are playing together and sound good.

 

[MustangWally]

I told the rhythm player that what he was playing wasn't right, and it it's not right the rest will fall apart

I have done the exact same thing (years ago) and I have zero regrets - the guy I zinged had absolutely NO sense of rhythm and you either have that or you don't, there is no way to magically 'get it'. Hopefully putting a rocket up his keister might wake him up. Please don't apologize ever for anything, you said the right thing.

 

[JRA]

try to use this whole endeavor to develop more patience with people and stop transferring how hard I can be on myself to others.

it's cool that you're willing to be 'conscientious' about your own known foibles.

OTOH: knowing how to 'make amends' is the perfect complement to the error in judgment (or lack of patience) as you describe. while he's working on rhythm parts you can be working on......

good luck to you both and good luck with your project!

 

[landrybass]

I actually live with my guitar player, and I try to be nice but I am often really hard on him. In any other situation I dont think I'd be as hard as I am on him with anybody else. He struggles with keeping good time and I feel the only way to improve is to become blatantly aware of the mistakes in order to become a better player. I feel it is working, albeit slowly. When people make mistakes on a continuous basis they need to be aware of it in order to improve.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

From what I've learned from others rather than any personal experience is that to be in the music or entertainment business means that you have to have some tough skin and be able to handle and accept criticism (constructive or not). It's going to happen. Take it as an opportunity to identify your weaknesses and to know what you need to work on the most. Never let your own ego get in the way.

 

[Vitrius Humor]

I used to be a little dictator when I was younger about this kind of stuff. If it really bothers you, just find other people to play with that you feel you are at or near their level. I usually like to be the one with the lesser amount of talent/experience so I can grow and improve; learn from the other guys and push myself a bit. It's frustrating to play with folks not close to what you are hoping to achieve. Stuff always gets said in those situations and asking for forgiveness is all you can really do. I always apologize for bringing up stuff like that to makes sure everyone is cool about it. I always think of how Paul berated George during the Let It Be sessions. George never really forgave him for that.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

This may not apply exactly to your situation, and to others, it might sting a little.
If your goal is to progress as a musician, to become the very best bass player you can be, as you define that, then take heed.
The most profound, immutable, and ever correct piece of advice I ever received came from an extremely wise old jazz guitarist, who told me "Always be the weakest member".
What he meant was to always surround yourself with musicians superior to yourself. It's the only sure thing to drive you to constantly improve. When you're no longer the weakest, when you're leading the rest, it's time to move on to a different situation.
This may take months, it may take years, but I have always followed this guidance, and it has stood me in very good stead.
JMHO.......YMMV.

That's good advice for most any situation. I always need someone more talented to push me to improve. It's always more effective than me trying to push myself to improve.

 

[Govner22]

I think you might need a sit down with everyone to make sure your expectations are on the same page. There are lots of people that don't realize that rehearsal shouldn't be learning time, it should be polishing time. The problems come in when someone, like you, works hard to get it right and then finds out that they've wasted their time because no one else is doing the work. And if they aren't learning material between rehearsals I guarantee they aren't practicing at all, either.

That's something to get out on the table early on. What expectations does everyone else have? Are there goals being set? Are the goals reasonable? If everyone knows what to work on each week and has time, are they getting it done or is it too much?

This shouldn't be a chore, so you need to figure out what the reasonable expectations are, even if it's just to learn one song each week. If you guys can talk that through it would be really useful; this is a fundamental band thing and making sure everyone knows what is expected is pretty important.

This is my thought exactly. Every band has to decide "How good do we want to be?" and there can't be a member in a different place. In my casual band one guy calls rehearsal "practice"; I normally think of practice being done at home but if this is where he's at I can manage. In my semi pro band everyone's prepared as if it were a gig. Both bands are fun for me since we all know going in what's expected.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

You should hear what we say to each other in my band! My drummer will hold his nose and point at you if you play something awful!

A guy I played with years ago used to say "That's not how it goes on my record."

 

[Aceman]

We are waiting to hear the direct apology happened. We hope you have a ton of discussion material for that....

 

[Aceman]

I had a little band going for a while, and it basically died because a couple people weren't up to the task of learning their parts. One of them was my wife.

I'd like to examine this a little; You convinced some other people to join your band which includes your wife? Oh HELL no I'm never doing that! I wouldn't care what you called it, I would refer to it as "Their Band" always.

Not as bad as dating someone in the band...but close! For the other members...