God bless the idiots. Without them I'd be unemployed.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
I lost my cool with a bandmate.
- Thread starter consectaneus
- Start date
God bless the idiots. Without them I'd be unemployed.
This may not apply exactly to your situation, and to others, it might sting a little.
If your goal is to progress as a musician, to become the very best bass player you can be, as you define that, then take heed.
The most profound, immutable, and ever correct piece of advice I ever received came from an extremely wise old jazz guitarist, who told me "Always be the weakest member".
What he meant was to always surround yourself with musicians superior to yourself. It's the only sure thing to drive you to constantly improve. When you're no longer the weakest, when you're leading the rest, it's time to move on to a different situation.
This may take months, it may take years, but I have always followed this guidance, and it has stood me in very good stead.
JMHO.......YMMV.
If your goal is to progress as a musician, to become the very best bass player you can be, as you define that, then take heed.
The most profound, immutable, and ever correct piece of advice I ever received came from an extremely wise old jazz guitarist, who told me "Always be the weakest member".
What he meant was to always surround yourself with musicians superior to yourself. It's the only sure thing to drive you to constantly improve. When you're no longer the weakest, when you're leading the rest, it's time to move on to a different situation.
This may take months, it may take years, but I have always followed this guidance, and it has stood me in very good stead.
JMHO.......YMMV.
I've been the guy who called people out for not having their act together more times than I can remember. There are two points that come to mind.
One, it can be a good thing in the long run - if you're that guy who actually knows the parts, knows the sound, if you're the one that's making sure everything is on point, that's great. Often that's a shared responsibility but it's important to do your homework, and if you really commit to that you'll have a bird's eye view of every song and be able to make the band better as a whole. Bands aren't popularity contests; you all reflect on one another. Make sure they're on your level, enough to make you happy.
Two, be really careful about the intrusion if your own ego. Getting the song right so everyone is lifted up is one thing; nitpicking other people's parts because you either want to be the person in charge or because you're afraid that other people's mistakes will make you look bad is entirely something else. It's also easy for insecure people to imagine this dynamic is in play even when it isn't.
I feel like I've spent about twenty years so far learning how to be a constructive, valuable member of a group. It's an ongoing challenge. Keep your powder dry, only criticize when it's necessary, don't waste your time on a band that can't be what you need.
One, it can be a good thing in the long run - if you're that guy who actually knows the parts, knows the sound, if you're the one that's making sure everything is on point, that's great. Often that's a shared responsibility but it's important to do your homework, and if you really commit to that you'll have a bird's eye view of every song and be able to make the band better as a whole. Bands aren't popularity contests; you all reflect on one another. Make sure they're on your level, enough to make you happy.
Two, be really careful about the intrusion if your own ego. Getting the song right so everyone is lifted up is one thing; nitpicking other people's parts because you either want to be the person in charge or because you're afraid that other people's mistakes will make you look bad is entirely something else. It's also easy for insecure people to imagine this dynamic is in play even when it isn't.
I feel like I've spent about twenty years so far learning how to be a constructive, valuable member of a group. It's an ongoing challenge. Keep your powder dry, only criticize when it's necessary, don't waste your time on a band that can't be what you need.
I recall someone else on these forums mention that there are essentially two types of bands:
1) Bands that play for fun and/or the party
2) Bands that take the music seriously
Make sure everyone is on the same page, including yourself, and you will all have a great time. If not, then it might be time to look for a band that matches your preference.
1) Bands that play for fun and/or the party
2) Bands that take the music seriously
Make sure everyone is on the same page, including yourself, and you will all have a great time. If not, then it might be time to look for a band that matches your preference.
Pfffffft...here toke on this
Constructive criticism can rub ppl the wrong way, until you throw,In a genuine compliment or two..your not wrong in what you said, if done with tact, your there for fun but serious about sounding good too. We had a great guitar player who walkout mid rehearsal because we couldn't get the changes for tom petty song runnin down a dream, with no vocals, that song is redundant...anyway don't beat yourself up over it...
Constructive criticism can rub ppl the wrong way, until you throw,In a genuine compliment or two..your not wrong in what you said, if done with tact, your there for fun but serious about sounding good too. We had a great guitar player who walkout mid rehearsal because we couldn't get the changes for tom petty song runnin down a dream, with no vocals, that song is redundant...anyway don't beat yourself up over it...
Don't sweat it. When a person tells a group of people he's going to play with them
there is an understanding that he can keep up his end. It's unfair to expect the other
players to allow a person to play when they can't keep up. He should be apologizing to
the other players for wasting their time.
there is an understanding that he can keep up his end. It's unfair to expect the other
players to allow a person to play when they can't keep up. He should be apologizing to
the other players for wasting their time.
OK, lemme get this correct: the guitar player didn't know his part and got all bent out of shape because the bass player pointed out the obvious?
Sorry to say, but you'd better get used to that scenario if you want to keep playing in bands. Be prepared next week when he tries to convince the rest of the band that they need a new bass player.......
Sorry to say, but you'd better get used to that scenario if you want to keep playing in bands. Be prepared next week when he tries to convince the rest of the band that they need a new bass player.......
Many of you seem to be offering up ways to resolve the issue of a guitar player's hurt feelings. Very few seems to be offering up any suggestions as to the issue of the guitar players being unable to play and/or unwilling to put in the time to learn his parts.
At some point, a band has to be able to play songs. If the guy doesn't even hear when he's flubbing up, whataya do with that???
At some point, a band has to be able to play songs. If the guy doesn't even hear when he's flubbing up, whataya do with that???
I wouldn't even consider apologizing. He didn't learn his part and then made a bunch of excuses. What did YOU do wrong? 
I was playing music with a bunch of self proclaimed hobby/beginners, who were "determined" to get out of the basement. I would be called "band Nazi / band police" etc. I Then took the stand that I would say nothing. When it would get real bad they'd stop and ask me what the problem was. More than a couple times I would have to pick up a guitar to show the person who suggested the song, how to play it. One day they decided to "play out", I agreed. On the way, wife says to me, "you do know this is going to be a trainwreck?" I says, "yes, but how else are they going to figure it out"? I kid you not, at one point there's an older lady with her hands on her ears. And others leaving the room... LOL
After I'd given up, I'd still get together with them and drink a couple beers and make noise. (two are friends, "I don't use that term lightly") They actually steadily got worse as they didn't even bother playing the songs in between "get together's"
If people present a band situation as wanting to play in front of any audience, they shouldn't subject people to bad music or "noise" so they can feel like a musician or play "rockstar". Especially when laziness is the fault.
To the original poster, I've been there and participated in the train wreck. If people aren't concerned about their mistakes or short comings, they will never improve much. I myself love it when someone catches a bad note I play. I certainly know it... You are going to have to get yourself in the mindset that you don't care, and see if the rest "pick up the ball". (they most likely won't) And then you will probably have to decide whether or not lugging bass gear to hang out with people is worth it. Good luck, I was there once! Making music with serious musicians (at whatever level they are at) is way more fun and satisfying.
Sometimes this can be an easy fix. Wait until *you* screw something up and say "what I played wasn't right, it fell apart and it was a train wreck and it was all my fault. I'll do better next time"
If he's a little behind the curve of the other guys, perhaps working on the new stuff a few days (instead of hours) before rehearsal would be a better approach. Even in casual bands, guitar spots are hard to come by.
It happens to everyone, especially in creative situations.
Set the others up with their preferred beverages, apologize, and make more music.
Set the others up with their preferred beverages, apologize, and make more music.
You always have to be careful when criticizing someone's playing. Even when done nicely, it can be frustrating to hear you aren't playing something right. If done right, you can correct the problem. If done out of frustration, it can go south.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I wouldn't even consider apologizing. He didn't learn his part and then made a bunch of excuses. What did YOU do wrong?
OP says this is a casual band, and seems to feel he crossed the line. A little different from a working band. Correct the personal issue so they can move to correct the the music.
I see your point. But "correcting the music" seems to be the sticking point to begin with.
Also, I keep going back to the fact that the guy doesn't hear when he's messing up. If you don't know when you're messing up, that's not a lack of talent. That's something I don't think can be corrected.
But, again, I don't think you're wrong.
A common strategy I've seen in bands I've been in is for someone to say: "maybe that tune is out of our reach at the moment".
that way you don't directly offend someone and their playing, makes it a group thing.
of course if there's a pattern of unpreparedness and inability, you'll need another strategy or your set list will be very short.
that way you don't directly offend someone and their playing, makes it a group thing.
of course if there's a pattern of unpreparedness and inability, you'll need another strategy or your set list will be very short.
Don't sweat it, Been there Done that. However, In my case when I Raged it was deservedly so.
When I was younger I found myself snapping off on a bandmate instead of having a rational, calm discussion. I associate that behavior with the immaturity of youth.
At my age now I make every attempt to have a ration discussion of the situation...
My Motto is..."As soon as it stops being fun, I'm Out"
When I was younger I found myself snapping off on a bandmate instead of having a rational, calm discussion. I associate that behavior with the immaturity of youth.
At my age now I make every attempt to have a ration discussion of the situation...
My Motto is..."As soon as it stops being fun, I'm Out"
I think there is a level of how well you know people too. I've been playing with the same drummer for 15 years and the same guitar player for 10. We've played the same stuff so many times that we all know when someone makes a mistake and it usually flows into a few looks and grins and on we go. It takes a while to get to that point of comfort.
That said, when it's time to learn a new tune and someone is clearly playing the wrong part we don't hesitate to work together to fix it and get it right. There's no animosity involved.
I think you hang with it and take the high road. Enjoy the ride.
That said, when it's time to learn a new tune and someone is clearly playing the wrong part we don't hesitate to work together to fix it and get it right. There's no animosity involved.
I think you hang with it and take the high road. Enjoy the ride.
