I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

[chuck norriss]

Two of the most unimpressive basses I have ever played have been a Fodera Yin-Yang and a Squier CV P-Bass. Both equally hyped..., IMO, both equally sucked. So what does that do to either side of the argument? Nothing. It's perspective, plain and simple.

Squiers a 30% chance you catch an egg. The other 70% well you know. It only means it needs adjustments or upgrdes. I just don't go lookin for uphill battles

 

[chuck norriss]

The worst basses that I have ever played have been on the wall at Guitar Center, so mostly Squier, Fender MIMs, Epiphones and Music Mans. Nothing against those brands but since they were at Guitar Center, they weren't set up, which is why they played like turds. Unfortunately, that was my first impression of done of those basses and I base my opinion on those experiences.

The best I've had was a gretsch from GC. I played a knock out MM today. It was all glory victory new eyes new gas.

 

[MarcusPHagen]

OK, I'll show you a couple. Now do you believe?

Ok...but why do you need two 5 strings.....

By owning a light AND a dark, he's bringing balance to the Force.

mph

 

[Alrod]

I think that yes, when you play in your bedroom or cushy 'home studio', that Sadowsky might appeal to you more than an SX with appropriate tweaks or even a stock Fender. But, take a guitar, drummer, keys, and whatever else your group may have and throw it into a single mix, and it'll be alot more difficult to A/B that Sadowsky vs. the other Jazz bass.

These type of comments come from those that don't see the big picture. It is all the little nuances that when put together make the difference between good and great. That bedroom Sadowsky sound may not be distinguishable as a Sadowsky, in the context of a mix, but it adds to the mix sounding that much better. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.

Granted, a high end bass will not make a bad player sound good, but that's not what we are talking about here.

Facts are facts, look at the best players in the these world, look at the best bands in the world. They can literally choose whatever instruments they want to play. What are they playing? Notice I didn't name any brands here. But just look at what they are playing. I am sure as these people go out on tour or are in the studio, the conversation isn't "well just hand me any old instrument. It doesn't matter what I play, no one will notice anyway". That speaks volumes and discredits everyone that says tone and instrument selection doesn't matter.

 

[jarrydee]

These type of comments come from those that don't see the big picture. It is all the little nuances that when put together make the difference between good and great. That bedroom Sadowsky sound may not be distinguishable as a Sadowsky, in the context of a mix, but it adds to the mix sounding that much better. It's really not a difficult concept.

Granted, a high end bass will not make a bad player sound good, but that's not what we are talking about here.

Facts are facts, look at the best players in the these world, look at the best bands in the world. They can literally choose whatever instruments they want to play. What are they playing? Notice I didn't name any brands here. But just look at what they are playing. That speaks volumes and discredits everyone that says tone doesn't matter.

I see most of them playing stuff of off GC wall, fenders and such!

 

[Just Thumpin']

Okay...here's another. I used to regularly play a Victor Bailey Jazz Bass (Mahogany body, Koa top, Indian Rosewood FB). I no longer own it, but I played it for several years before buying my first Fodera (before I was a Partner here). The first Fodera that I bought was a Monarch 4 J/J with a Mahogany body, Koa top and Indian Rosewood FB.

I do not think that there could be two more "similar" instruments -- at least from a theoretical tonal standpoint. Both have preamps, both share the same tonewoods, both are 34" scale, both had the same strings on them (Fodera 40-100 Nickel) and both were J/J.

Same thing...I could easily tell the difference between them as could my whole family. Not only in my home studio, but out in a live situation.

By way of example, I had a really fun gig one night back in late 2007 and at that point I was still regularly alternating between my trusted old Victor Bailey Jazz and my realtively new Fodera Monarch. I had a really fun little solo in one tune that we did and a friend of mine had recorded the gig. When I came home and played it for my family, my 13 year old son said something to the effect of, "Wow Dad, you're taking the Fodera out now -- it sounds great!" My family was emotionally attached to the VB Jazz Bass because they had bought it for my birthday a few years earlier (it was a 2004).

My son never saw what bass was in the gig bag when I left the night before and he never asked me which bass I played, but he sure heard enough of both of them in our house to easily know which was which. Of course, this is not a perfect comparison either as the VB cost me around $1,400 and the Fodera $4,750, but I think it makes a fair point...

I have had many, many similar opportunities over the years as we regularly listen to instruments "blind" in the shop -- to compare various wood combinations to one another, scale lengths to one another, different preamp settings, different pickup windings, different strings AND, sometimes another manufacturer's instrument to one of ours. It is actually very rare that we cannot hear the differences (unless they are very subtle). That said we don't always agree on what sounds better...LOL!

Regards,

J

And so could I. Or really anyone of us.
A single pick up short scale passive bass will always sound different than any Fodera or anything else. I see your point but really, that comparrison is rather weak.
But a MIA DLX "Jazz" vs. an NYC Empire "Jazz" and it gets tougher. Quickly.
And really, of all people you should be able to tell....you work there. Especially between a short scale single pickup passive bass vs your Fodera ......

Like I said, a multi humbucker'd pre-amp'd bass is naturally going to sound significantly different from a passive Jazz. From any price point.

 

[NickyBass]

You know guys, if you're going to do it, do it right. You forgot your smugs. Here, let me help...



The fact that my perspective is lost or misunderstood by the both of you is neither here nor there to me. Just as I won't change your minds in this issue, you will be unable to change mine. That's cool. If you want to pay some ungodly amount of money for any overpriced object and feel you got good value out of the deal, that is your right. Have fun. Just don't expect me to toady along going "OOOH! AAAHHH!", nor to silence whatever criticism I may feel is appropriate.

iJazz - No angora-lined goat scrotum gig-bags for me; nor coffee table to carry in one.

I am curious what your expierience with boutique basses is. I've probably played 100 high end basses, and I'll be the first to say that many weren't the right tone and feel for me. That is why we play boutique instruments, though; to find one that fits us perfectly.

I'm not trying to make anyone say 'ooh, aah' with my basses. I'm just trying to find a bass that makes ME happy. You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself. We are the musicians, not the audience. Even if they can't tell a difference, I can.

 

[Alrod]

I see most of them playing stuff of off GC wall, fenders and such!

Yes, but you rarely see them playing $100 pieces of plywood, that is my point.

 

[Just Thumpin']

I'd be very interested in hearing more about the Yin Yang. Was it properly set up? Did it have fresh batteries in it? Fresh strings? What sucked...more specifically? I totally get that our stuff may not be for everyone, but "totally sucked?" Do tell! Also, we'd be more than happy to host you at our shop to let you play through several Yin Yangs (I own three). If, after that, you still feel that they suck...cool, I am never going to argue with a person's opinion.

However, to pull an example from your own screen name here...if you had a '61 Petrus that was stored in my garage for 30 years it would probably suck. On the other hand, one that is ex-domaine and has been perfectly stored...likely to be a seriously sublime wine. Is it Chateau Petrus that's at fault for the first bottle?

I have had any number experiences of being out "in the field" when someone puts one of our instruments into my hands and says "What do you think?" Unfortunately sometimes the instruments have dead strings on them, dead batteries, improper amounts of neck relief, have not been intonated, etc. Sometimes in the condition that they are handed to me they do "suck." That said, after a new set of strings, batteries and a proper set up I have personally never experienced a Yin Yang that "sucked" and I have played over 20 of them over the years -- not counting the Yin Yang Standard which I have played an additional roughly 80 of...

Regards,

J

Two of the most unimpressive basses I have ever played have been a Fodera Yin-Yang and a Squier CV P-Bass. Both equally hyped..., IMO, both equally sucked. So what does that do to either side of the argument? Nothing. It's perspective, plain and simple.

 

[jamzilla]

These type of comments come from those that don't see the big picture. It is all the little nuances that when put together make the difference between good and great. That bedroom Sadowsky sound may not be distinguishable as a Sadowsky, in the context of a mix, but it adds to the mix sounding that much better. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.

Granted, a high end bass will not make a bad player sound good, but that's not what we are talking about here.

Facts are facts, look at the best players in the these world, look at the best bands in the world. They can literally choose whatever instruments they want to play. What are they playing? Notice I didn't name any brands here. But just look at what they are playing. I am sure as these people go out on tour or are in the studio, the conversation isn't "well just hand me any old instrument. It doesn't matter what I play, no one will notice anyway". That speaks volumes and discredits everyone that says tone and instrument selection doesn't matter.

Jaco played a Fender.

 

[SoVeryTired]

Can't we all just get along and agree that a P with tort guard and flats is best?

My first bass was £50 off eBay and, by chance, was great. Then I sold it and got a Far East model from a 'boutique' builder for £600. Do I notice the difference in feel and sound? Of course. Is the more expensive bass better? For many applications, not all. Would I buy a more expensive bass if I had the money? Absolutely. Am I a good bassist? Not at all. I appreciate finely crafted instruments and fine bass players, either together or separately.

 

[dvh]

Same thing...I could easily tell the difference between them as could my whole family. Not only in my home studio, but out in a live situation.
J

They're just avoiding an argument......

 

[Will Kelly]

That said, I'm more fascinated watching really good players go through the inexpensive inventory at GC or Sam Ash looking for "the one". They find them too. One of my friends, who I respect as one of the best guitarists I've ever seen, pro or otherwise has tons of vintage guitars, mainly because he refuses to sell EVER! One day I asked him what he would pay to have new frets installed. His answer "nothing, I can buy a guitar for that price". The real answer is that because he knows what he likes, and can set it up for himself, he can get away with always using less expensive guitars.

Amen to this. Best part of the thread. I have owned so many boutiques, and my favorite bass of all time is an early Japanese made Squire P.

 

[WoodyG3]

era 40-100 Nickel) ...
I have had many, many similar opportunities over the years as we regularly listen to instruments "blind" in the shop -- to compare various wood combinations to one another, scale lengths to one another, different preamp settings, different pickup windings, different strings AND, sometimes another manufacturer's instrument to one of ours. It is actually very rare that we cannot hear the differences (unless they are very subtle). That said we don't always agree on what sounds better...LOL!

Regards,

J

And part of the key here is that everyone will NEVER agree on what sounds better.. or plays better... or looks better

 

[Alrod]

Jaco played a Fender.

Yes indeed he did. And at the time those were considered amongst the high end guitars. My only argument is against the folks that think $100 plywood or similar bass's are all you need because there is no difference. That's just rediculous and I would go as far a questioning their playing ablility (there, I said it!)

I have no beef with Fender, Ibanez, etc. I own them myself. Would love to be able to afford a boutique bass, and maybe someday I will. To me, my basses are high end. Price does not constitute high end for me, but wood, hardware, build quality, durability, and playability do. And you have to pay for that. One of the reasons I buy used is so that I can afford a better instrument.

I take my music seriously. I don't consider myself a hack. otherwise, I would buy a low end instrument, and would probably whine and complain that life is not fair and people are stupid for buying boutique instruments. Actually, I take that back. That's not my personality.

 

[nickbass79]

I take my music seriously. I don't consider myself a hack. otherwise, I would buy a low end instrument, and would probably whine and complain that life is not fair and people are stupid for buying boutique instruments. Actually, I take that back. That's not my personality.

This made me laugh. Mainly, because this is all I heard when reading some of the posts on this thread.

Gosh dern 1 pursentur base playrs, playn them fancy smancy bases!

 

[MVPBASS]

I think its amazing that people don't realize that back in the early days of electric bass, Fender was like todays Fodera. Not everybody could afford them, bassists argued that they were over hyped. Now, by todays standards and advancements, Fender isn't considered "boutique", maybe from all of the years of "cookie cutting", maybe because they have a factory in every country, maybe they did it to themselves. Don't think by making statements like "Jamerson played a Fender"or "Jaco played a Fender" that they wouldn't be playing a Smith if they were alive today.
Look at what the Fender players who ate still alive are playing today Joe Osborn (Lakland not Fender)
Mark Egan(Pedulla, not Fender),
Nathan Watts( Alleva Coppolo, Bossa, not Fender)
Anthony Jackson( Fodera, not Fender) and Chuck Rainey, Glen Hughes and countless others that have played so many high end basses, even the guys who still play "Fender style" instruments, aren't playing Fender. Why? Because they don't have to, they choose to look for something that fits them and makes them happy.

 

[spade2you]

I think its amazing that people don't realize that back in the early days of electric bass, Fender was like todays Fodera.

Kinda. Leo was more about production than perfection. There were still a lot of jazz boxes being built by hand and a few solid guitars that weren't exactly cheap. Leo's production methods created more guitars and basses, as well as a more affordable price than many of the available instruments at the time.

 

[madbassplaya]

Kinda. Leo was more about production than perfection. There were still a lot of jazz boxes being built by hand and a few solid guitars that weren't exactly cheap. Leo's production methods created more guitars and basses, as well as a more affordable price than many of the available instruments at the time.

Yep. He was the Henry Ford of guitars.

 

[nickbass79]

I think its amazing that people don't realize that back in the early days of electric bass, Fender was like todays Fodera. Not everybody could afford them, bassists argued that they were over hyped. Now, by todays standards and advancements, Fender isn't considered "boutique", maybe from all of the years of "cookie cutting", maybe because they have a factory in every country, maybe they did it to themselves. Don't think by making statements like "Jamerson played a Fender"or "Jaco played a Fender" that they wouldn't be playing a Smith if they were alive today.
Look at what the Fender players who ate still alive are playing today Joe Osborn (Lakland not Fender)
Mark Egan(Pedulla, not Fender),
Nathan Watts( Alleva Coppolo, Bossa, not Fender)
Anthony Jackson( Fodera, not Fender) and Chuck Rainey, Glen Hughes and countless others that have played so many high end basses, even the guys who still play "Fender style" instruments, aren't playing Fender. Why? Because they don't have to, they choose to look for something that fits them and makes them happy.

You are Correct Sir!

but did their tone change when they changed basses?



Yes, it did!