I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

[capnsandwich]

Come on! All the people in Davinci's time didn't have to have perfect knowledge for his science to be utilized. Do you think there were no pain relievers before Bayer Aspirin? Ancient Rome didn't know about lead poisoning but had modern plumbing. It just goes to show that there's always more to know & learn.


There is art to the science and science to the art.

Painkillers before Bayer:

Painkillers after Bayer:

 

[nickbass79]

mmmmmm...shine...

 

[spade2you]

I have some Shine On, which is a legal moonshine, just regulated and safe. WORST tasting stuff on the planet. I once tried to get drunk off of it and had trouble getting the shots down and from recoil. I gave up quickly. Blechk.

 

[lomo]

Come on! All the people in Davinci's time didn't have to have perfect knowledge for his science to be utilized. Do you think there were no pain relievers before Bayer Aspirin? Ancient Rome didn't know about lead poisoning but had modern plumbing. It just goes to show that there's always more to know & learn.


There is art to the science and science to the art.

There was certainly science, but the given example isn't it. Even if you believe you can hear the differences different woods make in an electric bass ,if you believe you can determine how resonant a piece of wood will be after it's dried and cut by listening to the parent tree fall and then knocking on the trunk ....... then you must be immune to logic. The idea is completely laughable. It's as logical and backed by evidence as....astrology. Signing out.

 

[capnsandwich]

I have some Shine On, which is a legal moonshine, just regulated and safe. WORST tasting stuff on the planet. I once tried to get drunk off of it and had trouble getting the shots down and from recoil. I gave up quickly. Blechk.

You can always use it to start your grill.

 

[spade2you]

You can always use it to start your grill.

Pretty sure my grill would have also started gagging.

 

[chadds]

There was certainly science, but the given example isn't it. Even if you believe you can hear the differences different woods make in an electric bass ,if you believe you can determine how resonant a piece of wood will be after it's dried and cut by listening to the parent tree fall and then knocking on the trunk ....... then you must be immune to logic. The idea is completely laughable. It's as logical and backed by evidence as....astrology. Signing out.

Oh I'm not trying to prove that either. Sounds mythical. I just wonder if you can hear it after its dried why you can't before it's dried. It may have certain native acoustic characteristics. You've decided that the water content erases the possibility. Why have you decided this?

I can tell at 5 years of age who could do well in track. You are saying I have to see them after other conditions are met. I just can extrapolate backwards. My "track record" is very good. One of my kids ran a 5 min.mile in 6th grade.
It doesn't even mean they will do well in track either. Would I bet the farm? No. Would I return to that log. Why not? It's not like buying Monster cable.

I'm on here to learn. I already know what I know.

 

[chadds]

Yes you can have a boutique that's bolt-on. In fact as I got away from the expensive neck through hippie sandwich I found the live resonant bolt-on large wide frequency response hand made bass of my dreams. While it was in the $2K+ range it was no longer the $3600 range. I know prices have risen.

 

[spade2you]

A lot of modern luthiers are getting away from the hippie sandwich in favor of a simpler 3pc neck construction.

 

[Gizmot]

I've heard guys playing low or mid-priced basses that got reasonably good sound. However, in my experience, an instrument made with better wood and a higher level of workmanship have a vibe and a playability to them that you typically don't find in lower cost models. If what you play works for you then so be it. However, I prefer to get something better and enjoy it - life's too short to screw around with mediocrity

 

[Brad Johnson]

A lot of modern luthiers are getting away from the hippie sandwich in favor of a simpler 3pc neck construction.

Some even do 1 piece.

 

[bassbenj]

I've heard guys playing low or mid-priced basses that got reasonably good sound. However, in my experience, an instrument made with better wood and a higher level of workmanship have a vibe and a playability to them that you typically don't find in lower cost models. If what you play works for you then so be it. However, I prefer to get something better and enjoy it - life's too short to screw around with mediocrity

The problem is nobody quite knows what any of this means. I play some cheapo basses that sound great, not just "reasonably good". That is because I personally have gone over them with a fine tooth comb making them just what I wanted. They started with nice pieces of wood picked out by me and "tonewood" doesn't make much difference anyway.

So now we have a question. Am I still playing a "cheap" bass? If I have an SX Pleked and plays like a Sadowsky, what is it? Yes it's $200 more for one thing. But uncounted here is what is my time worth. If I paid Roger Sadowsky to do the things I did then the bass could be worth thousands. But if I do it, and only use some of my time, is it still a cheap bass? But on the other hand *I* really like what I do to a bass so when I'm done it's specifically tailored to me. Surely that sort of thing is worth money?

The bottom line therefore, is that rules like "you get what you pay for" are simply not always valid. Sometimes you pay what the guy is charging regardless of what he's doing. And sometimes you don't pay at all and get great. So while there is SOME truth to judging a bass by it's headstock shape, it's also easy to be fooled by a Squier or SX because you don't know where it's been or who has been tweaking on it. On the other hand if you are the sort of person who isn't much with tools, then obviously you have to pay someone else to do it, and the more talented they are, the better job they do, which means the more they charge. Which is sort of what expensive boutique basses are about.

 

[MVPBASS]

The problem is nobody quite knows what any of this means. I play some cheapo basses that sound great, not just "reasonably good". That is because I personally have gone over them with a fine tooth comb making them just what I wanted. They started with nice pieces of wood picked out by me and "tonewood" doesn't make much difference anyway.

So now we have a question. Am I still playing a "cheap" bass? If I have an SX Pleked and plays like a Sadowsky, what is it? Yes it's $200 more for one thing. But uncounted here is what is my time worth. If I paid Roger Sadowsky to do the things I did then the bass could be worth thousands. But if I do it, and only use some of my time, is it still a cheap bass? But on the other hand *I* really like what I do to a bass so when I'm done it's specifically tailored to me. Surely that sort of thing is worth money?

The bottom line therefore, is that rules like "you get what you pay for" are simply not always valid. Sometimes you pay what the guy is charging regardless of what he's doing. And sometimes you don't pay at all and get great. So while there is SOME truth to judging a bass by it's headstock shape, it's also easy to be fooled by a Squier or SX because you don't know where it's been or who has been tweaking on it. On the other hand if you are the sort of person who isn't much with tools, then obviously you have to pay someone else to do it, and the more talented they are, the better job they do, which means the more they charge. Which is sort of what expensive boutique basses are about.

Maybe you should buy SX basses, do what you do to them, and turn around and sell them for profit. Then guys would pay YOU to do what Sadowsky does. I go in halves with you, Bassbenj Basses

 

[GregC]

What you call stereotypical criticism is simply the sound of many people of the same mind.
*snip*
Given the general tone of branding as used in modern marketing, somebody needs to make a contrarian statement. At this time, for better or worse, I guess that's me.

Sounds like homey might play contradiction.

If you want to keep thinking people want you to "toady" or say "ooh aah" or "fall at their feet" or whatever simply because they're stating THEIR opinions--even though they're usually not stating it as emphatically as you state yours--knock yourself out.

Twisting? No, interpreting exactly what was written, and again was later shown to, from my view, IMO, support that which I stated.

1. Mediocre is not the same as poor.
2. I would have thought critical thinking would lead one to put "mediocre" in context--as in, mediocre by Fodera's standards. Probablystill a pretty damn good instrument by most standards, based on the reports of people who have played them.
3. The demonstration of Fodera's commitment to quality control would not have led me to conclude that boutique basses are overhyped. I guess I'm weird like that.

If my comments cause him or her to think more critically about their playing than their instrument, maybe 7 times out of 10 that is probably a good thing.

Considering your comments in this thread have not detailed any actual experience with boutique/expensive basses that would lead you to your conclusions, I hope the folks reading them think critically about them.

You say you're in Milwaukee. If you ever come to Chicago, I suggest contacting Lakland to arrange a date and time to visit. They're usually quite happy to show folks around and let them play an instrument or two. Nothing beats hands-on experience, whether one comes away with a positive or negative impression.

 

[chuck norriss]

You know what I hate--a Fender Standard Jazz plays great feels remarkable sounds clear. The same bass same model same fretboard the only difference is paint color & it sounds like a stinky foot.

 

[Lo end PUNCH]

I'm kinda there with the OP, I have gotten rid of all my boutiques except one, got a couple of Squires and a Brubaker Brute and pimped 'em out....and they sounds just as good as any bass I ever owned

 

[Blu bro]

Heya,
My two bobs worth... I started off playing bass with a 3/4 size four string onyx and a little 30wt jade amp (both from a thrift store) as i became more and more serious I have slowly upgraded. And I completely agree if les claypool played a a stick with one string it would still sound amazing (and yes he can do that). So I think there is a happy medium between gear and skill. And as you progress as a muso you become more and more awake to certain details because you start to hone in "your sound" that you are chasing. Gear is not as important to the music as it is to the musician. My thoughts..

 

[Just Thumpin']

95%+ of our instruments since inception have been either 3-piece or one piece. When folks work with us to spec out an instrument and they are interested in a 5, 7 or 9 piece neck we are straight forward with them and tell them that north of a three piece neck you gain next to nothing from a stability standpoint...it's all about looks at that point -- which is fine, but not necessary from a functional standpoint.

At an extreme level you can actually argue that more glue = less resonance = diminished tone. There is definitely a stability / structural benefit when you make the jump from one piece to three (there's also an added cost), but north of 3 pieces it's more about achieving a certain look.

A lot of modern luthiers are getting away from the hippie sandwich in favor of a simpler 3pc neck construction.

 

[georgestrings]

I've heard guys playing low or mid-priced basses that got reasonably good sound. However, in my experience, an instrument made with better wood and a higher level of workmanship have a vibe and a playability to them that you typically don't find in lower cost models. If what you play works for you then so be it. However, I prefer to get something better and enjoy it - life's too short to screw around with mediocrity

Agreed - I've been playing long enough and am at the stage in my life where I can afford some of the nicer things... To be honest, being able to own and play nicer basses than a typical Squire, MIM Fender, MIK Spector, Schecter, etc... is a luxury that I'm very much enjoying... Once you get used to playing really nice basses, it's hard to go back to cheaper stuff...Sure, I could still get the job done with an SX, but don't need to anymore....

Although I certainly don't look down on anyone who still is, I have to laugh when *some* of them try to make those cheaper instruments out to be better than they really are... Not mentioning any names, but one noob in particular was telling us all a few months ago how his SX is one of the best basses he's ever played, comparable to US Fenders, EBMMs, etc...

Recently, the same person was posting in the setup, hardware and repair forum asking tons of questions about how to get his SX to play better - and it was obvious by some of his posts that his bass wasn't anywhere near as good as he made it out to be months earlier...

I say, play the best gear you can afford, enjoy it, and don't worry about what others play - as it really doesn't affect you anyways...


- georgestrings

 

[georgestrings]

You know what I hate--a Fender Standard Jazz plays great feels remarkable sounds clear. The same bass same model same fretboard the only difference is paint color & it sounds like a stinky foot.

What you're talking about there is the occasional "jewel in the rough" - generally speaking, as price rises, the "jewels" become more frequent - but you'll still run into a dog now and then, regardless of price... A careful shopper with some knowledge and a good eye can still get a pretty good instrument without spending a ton of money - but being able to afford and play nicer instruments is definitely an enjoyable luxury for any serious musician...

IMO, the key is remembering the difference between "luxury" and "necessity" - and not to act like a snob in either direction...


- georgestrings