I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

[BadJazz]

That's twice he's quit the thread.

 

[Gabriel51]

I have had many Basses since 1964 from 7K to the lowly 300 dollar Squier, for me it is all in the feel because I can get the sound I need from almost any Bass worth playing.
I like German Warwicks because they have adjustable nuts, three way adjustable bridges and they also have reinforcement in the neck to reduce fret-out and worming around plus they sound great (to me).
High line Basses have woods that has been drying for years, multilaminate necks with moisture matched pieces.

Less expensive Basses do not have these features!

I really like wood so I'm most attracted to oil finishes,
I have a Cort A5 that has unmatched finishing detail and exotic woods plus probably sounds as good as anything I own (but I play the Warwicks).
So there is a difference between low priced instruments and it's probably subtle for some people who's requirement is different.
I am impressed that some manufacturers can make an inexpensive instrument that sounds and feels as good as they do, but again they all lack the additions mentioned above in a professional instrument.

 

[BadJazz]

I shop at both, as well as at Quick Check, Wawa, Wegmans, Foodtown, A&P, and Target.

Elitist!

/#OCCUPY TALKBASS

 

[David Jayne]

I play a parts bass, but I shop at Whole Foods.

 

[Roy Vogt]

When I started playing in 1970, the difference in quality from my starter Kalamazoo EBO copy to a Fender Jazz, Precision or Rick was pretty significant. There were a lot of import basses worse than my Kalamazoo, which was Gibson's made in USA with pressboard body bass. (BTW, I've played an EBO and EB3 from that era, and I have to call BS on the "wood doesn't matter" club. Identical electronics, and the Gibsons killed my little bass in the tone department.)
Nowadays, every major maker has Pacific Rim models at entry prices, and their designs and reliance on CNC technology have influenced all the no-name Fender clones coming from China (that would be SXes and their sisters). So the general quality of an entry level inexpensive bass relative to the top of the line in 2012 is pretty good. No way Fodera, Alembic, Modulus, NYC Bassworks, Alleve-Coppolo, Smith or Sadowsky good, but pretty good nonetheless. So, the cheap basses generally are a whole lot better compared to 40 years ago.
I think I've already said all of this. In the words of Yogi Berra, "It's Deja Vu all over again!"

 

[spade2you]

I shop at Costco. I saved a lot of money on my Cliff Bordwells by buying them in a 3 pack at Costco

 

[Gabriel51]

When I started playing in 1970, the difference in quality from my starter Kalamazoo EBO copy to a Fender Jazz, Precision or Rick was pretty significant. There were a lot of import basses worse than my Kalamazoo, which was Gibson's made in USA with pressboard body bass. (BTW, I've played an EBO and EB3 from that era, and I have to call BS on the "wood doesn't matter" club. Identical electronics, and the Gibsons killed my little bass in the tone department.)
Nowadays, every major maker has Pacific Rim models at entry prices, and their designs and reliance on CNC technology have influenced all the no-name Fender clones coming from China (that would be SXes and their sisters). So the general quality of an entry level inexpensive bass relative to the top of the line in 2012 is pretty good. No way Fodera, Alembic, Modulus, NYC Bassworks, Alleve-Coppolo, Smith or Sadowsky good, but pretty good nonetheless. So, the cheap basses generally are a whole lot better compared to 40 years ago.
I think I've already said all of this. In the words of Yogi Berra, "It's Deja Vu all over again!"

That was an uptown Bass! I started on an Airline from Monkey Wards (I think)?

 

[BadJazz]

When I started playing in 1970, the difference in quality from my starter Kalamazoo EBO copy to a Fender Jazz, Precision or Rick was pretty significant. There were a lot of import basses worse than my Kalamazoo, which was Gibson's made in USA with pressboard body bass. (BTW, I've played an EBO and EB3 from that era, and I have to call BS on the "wood doesn't matter" club. Identical electronics, and the Gibsons killed my little bass in the tone department.)
Nowadays, every major maker has Pacific Rim models at entry prices, and their designs and reliance on CNC technology have influenced all the no-name Fender clones coming from China (that would be SXes and their sisters). So the general quality of an entry level inexpensive bass relative to the top of the line in 2012 is pretty good. No way Fodera, Alembic, Modulus, NYC Bassworks, Alleve-Coppolo, Smith or Sadowsky good, but pretty good nonetheless. So, the cheap basses generally are a whole lot better compared to 40 years ago.
I think I've already said all of this. In the words of Yogi Berra, "It's Deja Vu all over again!"

I just bought my first Fender ever, a Squier Affinity beginner pack (amp, cable, tuner, dvd, etc), and the quality of the bass is WAY beyond what I expected. Hell, even the tuner is pretty good. $146, including tax, brand new, out the door.

Granted, it's usually a $299 package, but a pawn shop down the hill was having a 50% off music gear sale.

 

[mongo2]

Elitist!

That's "Mister" Elitist to you.

 

[lfmn16]

I'm pretty sure that Sadowsky, Fodera, etc have not lost a single sale to SX.

How can you know that for sure? How can you know that it won't happen in the future?

Common Sense.

 

[Roy Vogt]

That was an uptown Bass! I started on an Airline from Monkey Wards (I think)?

If it had the reso-glas body and you held onto it it's worth some bucks! Just goes to show if you hang onto anything long enough it comes back in style. Paul Nowinski told me that my little EBO clone (I still have it) is one of the "It" basses in New York for Hipster sessions. There's even a pro compensating bridge to get it (sorta) in tune available.

 

[Immigrant]

Why are so many of you anti-quality or anti-boutique?

I am not suprised Just Thumpin (Fodera) didn't come back to a thread with so many people with crazy, crazy ideas.

Why do you celebrate mediocrity so much, and scorn excellent craftmanship?

This thread is tiring me out. Seriously.

You would think on a bass forum, that brands like Fodera and Alembic would be held in a much higher regard.

I am done. I think I have nothing in common with any of you, and therefore, nothing more to say. Some people do their shopping at 7-11, others at trader Joes. To each their own, I guess.

Yes, you do. You play bass and obviously have emotions. No one here that posts is knowingly a Vulcan. We don't know.

Ease up. Several people have posted in a sympathetic, empathetic fashion towards you, and I've read this whole post a few times but any slams coming your way were either half-joking or so light-hearted that if you were offended, it's because you let yourself be.

You need to find a way to let s roll off or you'll be hypertensive (you maight already be) way too soon. I let something here bother me last week and I said something I shouldnt have, and after this I plan to PM an apology to him because it bothers me that I got bothered and lost it.

Play bass. Vent here if you want. Just be prepared to here all angles in response.

 

[Randy S]

My first bass in 1973 was an unbelievable turd of a thing.

I just knew it was the root of all my troubles in learning to play, so I sold it cheap to another guy who actually knew what he was doing.

He made the thing sing. I didn't get it.

I went through several more before I finally realized the problem was me.

I've had basses all over the price spectrum since then, and I am convinced it's the player, not so much the bass.

Cheers.

 

[mongo2]

I've had basses all over the price spectrum since then, and I am convinced it's the player, not so much the bass.

There's an old saying that goes, "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools."

 

[Calaverasgrande]

How much of the experience of an high end bass involves the feel of the instrument vs the sound?

I dont even plug basses in when I check them out. I care primarily about feel and playability.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've bought everything myself with the exception of a trumpet that I got in the fourth grade. I guess the closest thing to gear jealousy I've run into is when I saw a kid that could barely play get a Marshall full stack. That kinda irked me a little, but what really got me going was that "my sales guy" was blowing me off when I wanted to buy something. Sure he has to feed his kids and the commision on a Marshall stack was a lot better than the commission from the gear I was buying, but I bought a lot from him over the years. I understand, but I think I may have been back once or twice to that store ten years later.I would have loved for my parents to have bought me a bass, but that just wasn't happening. Complete lack of summer jobs in my hometown unless you knew someone in the Masons meant I waited until I got a real job, saved my bucks and bought a Steinberger that I played for 15 years and then sold for a profit. I doubt that kid is still playing. Or maybe he's playing for Maroon5. Either way it doesn't matter.

Around the time right before I bought my first bass I was at the one music store in Easton, MD gawking at the two or three basses that they had that at that point I could only dream of. A kid, younger than me, came in with his parents, pointed to a Les Paul IIRC and proceeding to hack away at it. That was the guitar he wanted so that's what they bought for him. Done deal.

I can honestly say I wasn't jealous. Here's why... by this point in my life not getting anything handed to me was a given. IME even at a young age I knew that jealousy was at it's core a complete waste of time. Instead, my usual thought occured to me...

"Must be nice"


It wasn't like this was the first time I'd seen this kind of thing. I knew that if I wanted something, I'd have to get it for myself and guess what... I wouldn't have to answer to anyone or be beholden to them for it. Sounded good to me then and still does to this day.

A few weeks later I headed over to Western Auto and they sold me a white import Fender Telecaster bass copy with a chipboard case. If you squinted hard it looked exactly like Verdine White's bass with EWF. It cost well under $100 and they were nice enough to allow me to make payments over slightly less than a year.

The basses I played prior to that paled in comparison. So nowadays when people see what I play they assume all sorts of things that people who are comfortable making assunptions usually assume, in the meantime I know where I came from. These rants against different strata of gear are at their core goofy IMO. It's such box-like thinking it's a wonder anyone still does it.

Because of my circumstances I figured out ways to acquire gear that most still don't. Learn what I could about the market, be financially stable and be patient and wait until something I wanted came around in a deal that merited what I was willing to spend. By doing that I have a fraction of what most people think I have invested in my gear, most of which is top flight.

And I still don't hate cheaper gear.


Boutique basses are not a monolithic item. They absolutely can have problems. They can also be perfectly fine and a rational person could still easily not care for it. At all. To think otherwise is as I said, goofy IMO. Because that should be more than obvious.

For the people who keep saying a boutique bass is this or that, what real experience do you have with a range of boutique instruments AND decent non boutique gear because it sure looks like you're talking about an ideal vs. real life. If you pay alot for a bass the only given is that you paid alot for that bass. Nothing else is guaranteed, no matter how much you want a pricepoint to do so. That too is just fundamentally flawed.

For those who think more money spent = less problems, dream on. Anything can screw up and frankly I get a chuckle out of people who think that their gear is somehow more immune to this becuase of it's price.

For the people who think that ANYONE who owns above average cost gear must fit into the nice poseur box you keep for them just remember... two wrongs don't make a right. They just make another thread like this one.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think that the thread, while interesting, has gotten away from my point. The real idea is are expensive basses worth their price, and are they THAT much better sonically and physically. As I stated, based on the construction and care placed into a boutique bass, they are worth the price. Based on the care and construction placed into an SX, yes, it justifies its price. Through a great amp and pre-amp, would the boutique be THAT sonically better? No, not in all cases.

I do not slap or tap. I use a pick mostly. No matter what I play, my tonal variety isn't that wide. So, do I sound as good with a Brubaker Brute as I do with the Brubaker KXB Custom? Yes. Can I tweak the eq more and better with the custom? Yes, because the choice is there in the custom that is not in the import.

I too grew up a poor child, and for most of the '70s played a range of cheap Danelectros, Tiesco Del Rey, and Silvertones. Throw in an Ampeg Little Stud (plywood). That is all I could afford. Then the Japanese invaded with the Aria Pro II and Hondo and suddenly I had a much superior bass at an affordable price. As I've spent the better part of the last 35 years building my career, I've taken time to save and cleverly shop for boutique and high end basses, ending with a nice stable of mostly Kubicki and Steinberger basses. But, funny, I have never found that one bass that I just have said this is it, this is MY Holy Grail.

Lucas is fine to vent. Its not uncommon. You work hard to save for that one thing, while your neighbor takes out his credit card and purchases the same thing that he can't truly afford nor can he really use as well as you. We all know that, and we all have felt that way. It sucks. Big time.

I'm blessed and lucky to have what I do now. But I understand Lucas, and second Roy's emotion.

Want to truly make this thread worthless? I seriously recommend purchasing Roy's "Teach Me Bass Guitar" DVD series and studying it to death. When you are done you will make even your Daisy Rock sing like a pro.

No, we "all" haven't felt that way. If you think past the initial visual, being jealous of someone else's good fortune OR willingness to dig a nice fiscal hole really isn't worth getting jealous over. Once you truly see that the grass isn't greener, it gets easier. And if you live long enough you see that stuff really does come around. One guy sees another with a new $70k car and gets jealous. I see the same guy and know that I'd have at a minimum a $700 lease payment and know there's no way in hell I'd want that so I don't want the car, all things considered.

I don't get jealous over others' situations... I know mine is the one I need to concern myself with.

I've had folks tell me on many occassions they'd like to have this or that that I own. I ask what are they willing to give up and they look at me as if I have horns. At some point it should be obvious to most people that they can't do everything they want and they need to prioritize. Some people never seem to figure that out.

Not having things handed to me taught me to be self-sufficient. I am more than happy that that's how I came up in retrospect. I've seen way too many people who couldn't cope when adversity came around.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I keep reading how people can't stand the look of some boutique basses. I'll tell you what i can't stand:
Bowed, misaligned or warped necks
Sharp fret edges from improperly dressed frets
Microphonic or dead pickups
Scratchy cheap pots
Hum from improperly sheilded basses
Bridges that move from vibration
Cheap tuners that won't stay in tune
Fret buzz from high frets
Improperly cut nuts
Pickup cavities that are cut way bigger that the pickup
Control plates that don't fit or warped plastic
Screws that are driven in at an angle
Necks with dead spots
Inferior finishes with bubbles or flake off

All of which I have had personally had problems with with cheaper basses. That's my reason for buying boutique basses.

Strangely enough, I've seen all of these problems with different boutique basses over the years.

 

[crobasster]

I dont even plug basses in when I check them out. I care primarily about feel and playability.

That's my filosophy too.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course I know this to be true. Difference is, I admit to it. But for these holier-than-thou posters, who I assume are totally mature and HAPPY when someone gets something nice that is denied them, I question their moral superiority.

Oh sure, I should have been tickled pink that while I needed a decent bass, (so I could sound good in my HS Jazz band), instead, I would be stuck with a real junker of a bass....while the kid down the street got not 1, but 2 "dream" basses that even some pros cannot afford. That should have made me soooooo happy!

What these moral majority posters don't realize is that I would have been happy with even a MIA Fender back then. But when you are 12, how many lawns do you think you will need to mow in order to afford a 1100 dollar bass? Oh, I suppose that they think my "hatred" (never said that, by the way) is enough to be poisoning my whole existence all these years....ha! Far from it!
The only changes I have made in my life is that now that I can afford it, I will buy the best equipment I can afford (right now, that is in the 1400 range) and will one day own that Fodera or Alembic.
So be as snarky and superior as you want, guys. It matter not one bit to me what a bunch of internet tough guys think.

Next time you lose your job, your house and your health while your neighboor (who is lazy, unemployed and smokes, drinks and does drugs) wins the lottery...I expect you to jump for joy at his good fortune! Be happy! Don't be jealous! It's the american way!

Read some O'Henry... might change your perspective for the better.


So the kid up the street got two Alembics. His parents got divoced and his uncle molested him. Still envy his good fortune?

Look deeper than the surface and maybe, just maybe...

Hating what you consider to be others' good fortune simply isn't healthy IME IMO. I certainly wouldn't want to drag that mindset though life.

I've seen you do this alot on TB over the years and until now had no clue what the rationale was behind it. "SX" to you was like saying "Niagara Falls" to the Stooges. Now that I see where it came from, no offense... it makes even less sense to me.

You coveted the gear you thought you "deserved" over others less deserving IYO. You still resent that sort of thing. AND you have a serious problem with people who are happy with gear that you consider falling far short of "your" ideal.

Does that really make sense?