Double Bass I think I'm going to Magnetic Pickups

[novo]

Hi there

I am a pretty green double bass player (been playing for about 8 months now) and I have tried a couple of pickups (The Realist and B-Band) but they both did not match up to the volume requirements that I needed.
I play in a very bass reliant folk/alternative band and whenever we play a song and the drummer comes in I get totally lost and nobody hears me out...which is pretty frustrating
I have a fully carved db and I hook it to an Ampeg SVT2 Pro with a 6x10 cab and a Fishman Pro EQ... The volume on my ampeg is Gain : 3/4, Master :10, and still nobody listens to me

Anybody have any experience with Magnetic Pickups? Do they have volume/feedback probs?

btw I cannot try these pickups out de that where I live they barely play the double bass, let alone have pickups for sale....

Thanks so much

 

[fdeck]

I used a homemade magnetic for a few years. The pickup consisted of little coils from surplus stepping motors with 1/2 inch rare earth magnets inside. These were mounted on a little frame that clamped to the end of the fingerboard.

With this pickup, I could reach very high volume levels with much less feedback than a piezo. But, the "electric" sound was always noticeable and my high gain levels became a sort of crutch because I could play with relatively low "action" and minimal finger strength. So I ended up ditching the magnetic and adopting a more mainstream piezo setup with a less powerful amp.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hi there
I am a pretty green double bass player (been playing for about 8 months now) and I have tried a couple of pickups (The Realist and B-Band) but they both did not match up to the volume requirements that I needed.

I like green , I could see where the Realist wouldn't work in your situation, because it's not a pickup that works well when you have to play at high volumes. It sounds nice at low and medium levels, but the whole character of the Realist changes when you have to turn up. Since there's a couple of different B-Band designs ( a 3 element and a single element.) I wouldn't be any help to you there

I play in a very bass reliant folk/alternative band and whenever we play a song and the drummer comes in I get totally lost and nobody hears me out...which is pretty frustrating

I can feel you frustration, as I have been in the same situation many times.

I have a fully carved db and I hook it to an Ampeg SVT2 Pro with a 6x10 cab and a Fishman Pro EQ... The volume on my ampeg is Gain : 3/4, Master :10, and still nobody listens to me

I don't think the problem lies in your pickup, the Fishman Pro Platinum or you amp choices, as much as it does in the 6X10 cabinet as it's more likely to feed back because of it's wider dispersion pattern. Actually, a smaller cabinet like a 2x10 might do the job better.

Anybody have any experience with Magnetic Pickups? Do they have volume/feedback probs?

At one time I used the Tonenges 4 element magnetic, it was very feed back resistant, but it sounded very much like a fretless bass guitar.

btw I cannot try these pickups out de that where I live they barely play the double bass, let alone have pickups for sale....Thanks so much

As long as you use metal strings, there are several out there. They will not work with a set of Evah Parazzi's. I found this out the hard way.

RIc

 

[two fingers]

A friend of mine used to play in a band where his DB needed to "cut through" more. He snagged the pickups out of his P bass and put one on the E and A and the other on the D and G and let it eat. It actually sounded really REALLY good. He simply rigged up something on the bottom side of the bridge (it might have even been velcro).

 

[novo]

Seems like the way to go is magnetic pickups, I play the db on concerts with 2k people...thus I believe that the 'acoustic' sound of the db will still be lost on a huge sound system..

I will try on today with the 2x10 configuration and post back.

Someone suggested me the Spirocore strings for the magnetic pickup...your thoughts?

I'm thinking of purchasing the Zadow magnetic pickup!

 

[Francois Blais]

A simple piezo wing pickup such as the K&K BassMax could possibly be a good alternative.
And it's cheap.
They appear from time to time in the Classifieds here too.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Not to rain on the parade, but 8 months in I would still be more concerned with physical approach. Getting a big, focused projecting sound out of the instrument isn't a matter of switching strings or cabinets or amps.

 

[Ric Vice]

Seems like the way to go is magnetic pickups, I play the db on concerts with 2k people...thus I believe that the 'acoustic' sound of the db will still be lost on a huge sound system..

It really depends on who's running the sound system, how competent they are, and if they have experience running sound with a Double Bass in the mix. DB can sound very good through a large sound system. Dave Holland's big band was a good example. When they know what they are doing it's a joy to make music. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

Someone suggested me the Spirocore strings for the magnetic pickup...your thoughts?

If you intend to ever pick up the bow, they are very challenging to use. I played on Spirocore Weich's for most of my career. You won't be able to use any of the new composite strings like Evah Parrazi's, Zylex, Dominant etc.

Ric

 

[drurb]

Not to rain on the parade, but 8 months in I would still be more concerned with physical approach. Getting a big, focused projecting sound out of the instrument isn't a matter of switching strings or cabinets or amps.

Thank you, Ed. I was waiting for someone to say it.

Add to this the fact that many players have to amplify in situations not unlike what the OP describes (okay, maybe not 2k people) and few of them use magnetic pickups.

Finally, I don't believe that the acoustic sound of the instrument, or at least its essentials, need be lost when using large systems. Most of us have experienced the DB in such settings and they can still sound very much like DBs.

The OP ought to be able to achieve a quite high sound-pressure level with minimal susceptibility to feedback, given a good choice of pickup/amp/cab but, yes, technique comes first!

 

[novo]

thanks for your messages, really helpful guys!

its true what you said Ed, and I cherish that, but it does not mean that if a bassist has been practicing/playing his instruments for 8months, 20 years or even 1 day, they should not care how they sound on a live amplified situation... I mean that's what makes us humans no?

 

[Ric Vice]

thanks for your messages, really helpful guys!

... but it does not mean that if a bassist has been practicing/playing his instruments for 8months, 20 years or even 1 day, they should not care how they sound on a live amplified situation... I mean that's what makes us humans no?

Novo,
As you become more adept at tone production, your amplified sound will also improve. I spent 6 years studying Double Bass in high school and college. It's served me very well. I highly recommend finding a teacher, if you do not already have one. Once that's in place, you will find that you amplification needs will change.

Addressing your current situation, is also important, so hopefully using a smaller cabinet will help that problem. I have a EUB to use in just the situations you are describing, but that's a expensive alternative. Maybe, you should just bring your Electric Bass to the gig and tell your bandmates that the volume levels are to

loud for you to use a Double Bass. That's something I do occasionally to get my point across. If they really want DB in the band they should be willing to pull back the volume.

Ric

 

[drurb]

thanks for your messages, really helpful guys!

its true what you said Ed, and I cherish that, but it does not mean that if a bassist has been practicing/playing his instruments for 8months, 20 years or even 1 day, they should not care how they sound on a live amplified situation... I mean that's what makes us humans no?

Well, of course a player should care! What Ed was pointing out was that a crucial aspect of achieving the sound you want is the development of good technique. I took his point (with which I agree) as one would do well to focus there first, especially if there is a problem "cutting through." Changing equipment, strings, etc. sometimes amounts to treating the symptoms without focusing on what may be the underlying problem. Now, for all I know, your technique is great. The point is that that's the place to look first.

 

[novo]

Yep I got that point ...and I have been told that in almost all my posts I posted during these 8 months on this blog...and I agree 100% with you guys! These posts made me grow as a bass player!

But roughly speaking and from a green double bass player point of view, no amount of technique will get you 'heard' more if the pickup on your double or the amplification is not up to a certain volume level, unless you are playing jazz etc...

And lets face it, its of a rare occurrence to meet a guitar player, tell him to lower his volume to get the double bass heard and gladly obliges..

hey guys I'm not starting any technique vs volume war over here...just trying to leech the knowledge from you guys

 

[drurb]

...no amount of technique will get you 'heard' more if the pickup on your double or the amplification is not up to a certain volume level, unless you are playing jazz etc...

Yes, that's true but, as I said earlier, many players who have traveled this road have managed to arrive at robust solutions that don't involve magnetic pickups. So, putting technique aside, there's no reason why you can't achieve more than adequate sound pressure levels via a judicious choice of equipment. BTW, those of us who play jazz also require a sufficient level. It might be more modest than what you need but, still, this sometimes involves multiple-piece combos in large rooms with hundreds of audience members.

 

[damonsmith]

Magnetic is taking it too far. It isn't bad to have a old clip on Fishman or Underwood around for loud situations, or even an EUB.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Magnetic pickups also feedback but putting the strings into the feedback loop. So if you have a large amplification factor, the cab puts energy onto the top/bottom, this feeds energy into the string and if not damped (do you have all non-sounding strings damped all the time?), a string might start to resonate and this will give you feedback rather quickly. Of course, you can damp the string to get rid of it, but next time it returns.

A better idea is to think about where to place the cab (a large one is not neccesarily good for a double bass because it might put the energy more or less directly onto your basses top or bottom. Put it away, direct it somewhere else to the other musicians, maybe put a second smaller cab for your monitor and the rest out of the first louder cab out to the musicians.
But usually this is a task for the sound engineer at the mixer. Just stay away from putting the bass into YOUR monitor (maybe say NO to a monitor for the bass player and stay away of them).

Keep the feedback factor below one by getting less energy from the amp back to your bass. It is not a question of pickup but a question of cab placement. I'm sure you can hear yourself very well and only the other musicians are complining, so move the cab away from you and closer to them. Also try to set your EQ so that the feedback comes in rather late. Any spike in the amplification spectrum can start feedback, so better put things out than in.

And put out the bass frequencies a bit or a bit more, you will get more from your amp for the rest and you will be heard better. Specially if it gets rather loud.

 

[damonsmith]

It is an all around waste of time. You should just use Bass Guitar for that project.

 

[Ric Vice]

It is an all around waste of time. You should just use Bass Guitar for that project.

+1 I definitely would have done that, but there have been a few times where my Lakland 55-94 just wouldn't get the tone and attack I needed for a hybrid music that used electronic drums exclusively. Fortunately, I have a Clevenger EUB for this kind of thing, and summers here in St. Louis where everyone just loves to eat outside.

Ric

 

[fdeck]

I think that ditching the magnetic helped my playing greatly, not only tone but also technique and musicality. Of course I always practiced without an amp, but I was playing differently on the bandstand than at home. Giving up the crutch of unlimited gain forced me to take my problems home and work on them in the woodshed.

I'm not trying to be paternalistic here, especially since I'm not a qualified teacher, but only speaking as a weekend warrior who happens to have some playing experience with magnetic pups.