I want to get better at playing jazz.

[Maxfenderbass]

Buy a Real Book, get backing tracks. Start with learning melodies and playing a 2 feel/walking over chord progressions. Improvising will come.

 

[mambo4]

Almost all the DNA of jazz song forms can be found in 2 tunes:
12 bar blues and variations
Rhythm changes
Almost every standard shares patterns with these in some way.
Learn enough theory to be able to execute these chord progressions in any key.

I would highly recommend finding a chart for I Got Rhtyhm and putting through the process described in Ed Fuqua's excellent article on really learning a tune

 

[Tommyc]

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If you can read notation and I would strongly recommend you learn to if you don't, there are examples of practically all the legendary jazz bassists ( e.g. Oscar Pettiford, Ray Brown, Charlie Haden etc.) here in transcription by Dave Fink. In many examples the bass lines are walking 4 to a bar which I found instructive as to how these guys link a chord progression in a simple single note fashion. The examples also link to the actual performances on YouTube. You don't have to play these at tempo to learn things. Don't shy away from reading. Not only could Jamerson read, he was reportedly a great reader. GOOD LUCK!

 

[spencer096]

my approach was to go to music school for jazz and classical guitar...practice 8-10 hours a day for like a decade...get major depression and PTSD from even thinking about playing jazz...take a decade off wandering around in the wilderness (i.e. golf)...switch to bass when you finally get annoyed with your uncle pestering you to join his band...AND JAZZ WILL MAGICALLY MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

youll also be able to magically sight read.

 

[Spin Doctor]

my approach was to go to music school for jazz and classical guitar...practice 8-10 hours a day for like a decade...get major depression and PTSD from even thinking about playing jazz...take a decade off wandering around in the wilderness (i.e. golf)...switch to bass when you finally get annoyed with your uncle pestering you to join his band...AND JAZZ WILL MAGICALLY MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

youll also be able to magically sight read.

Interesting... Is this based on a true story?

 

[DavidG]

Just shorten your strap, and move your fingers alot.

This is my method as well!
Also don't get overwhelmed. Go slow. Start simple. Cop licks from other instruments besides bass.

 

[spencer096]

Interesting... Is this based on a true story?

yea...music school was rough but once i started playing bass, all of it came back in waves. helped i never stopped listening and diving into scores for fun, but still didnt touch an instrument for a decade.

my 2 cents...i think a lot of being able to play jazz has to do with having a clear head and not having it all clogged up with data youre learning and/or pressures from school or it being your job. all the stuff mentioned in earlier posts makes a ton of sense and was the same path i followed...but it didnt really click until my head got cleared out of all the bs and i switched instruments.

obviously i was being a bit flippant for entertainment purposes.

 

[Spin Doctor]

my 2 cents...i think a lot of being able to play jazz has to do with having a clear head and not having it all clogged up with data youre learning and/or pressures from school or it being your job. all the stuff mentioned in earlier posts makes a ton of sense and was the same path i followed...but it didnt really click until my head got cleared out of all the bs and i switched instruments.

obviously i was being a bit flippant for entertainment purposes.

I think you may be right as far as learning it goes. Obviously some people have a real drive or affinity for it and it comes easier. But even a great player like Mike Stern said he had a really hard time at Berklee and felt like he would never get it. He obviously gets it now, lol.

Some of the original innovators like Miles and Chick Corea already knew how to play when they started attending music school. But they both quit when they realized there was nothing anyone at the schools could teach them.

I took the more mentally "relaxed" approach to learning, even though I still spent a lot of time studying while I was gigging. There was no pressure, since I didn't have to worry about trying to feed myself by playing jazz. I just did it because I wanted to. I only had to worry about sounding at least somewhat authentic, lol.

 

[bobcruz]

See if there is a beginner community jazz group in your town. You need to start getting direction from an experienced leader in how to swing and articulate.

This helped me tremendously--I took a jazz ensemble class at my local community college, which allowed students to repeat the class several times. I stayed in for quite a few semesters.

 

[cerrem]

In the beginning you learn from listening from the greats.....
When you start out it is imperative you learn all the Jazz Standards and "Turn-arounds" you can...
When I was learning Jazz guitar, my preference was listening to jazz sax players... Mostly Coltrane, Wardell Gray, Paul Desmond ... I would transcribe songs like Giant Steps and Steeple Chase..ect...
After you develop a bit...you need to find your own voice ....ie your own style and your own PHRASING and the ability to "add-lib" ie, improvising on the spot...
Key word here is PHRASING.....
There is nothing more boring and a waste of time than when I see a Jazz player cop a song Note-for-Note and using the phrasing of the original artist....to me that's criminal for a public performance..
You do that when your learning...
Jazz is a state of mind.... Playing Jazz standards in the "frame-work" but using your own arrangements and your own phrasing is where it's at....then you get respect...
The most thrilling feeling is stepping in with musicians you have never played with before and just "take-off" .... The piano player just doing something cool...the drummer starts laying down some syncopated timing down...the bass is just grov'en along and your guitar is just layering and melting the chords between the notes.... Then you counter melody with the piano and bass...sometimes work off the drum timing as well... It's all on the spot add-lib...musicians listening and feeling and taking the music to a new place ....Usually the piano is sort of the conductor....he changes keys and timing...then you follow as well...This is so much fun because it's about freedom and expression from your heart and soul.....
Then when the fun is over I have to go back and play with my boring cover band....God forbid I don't play the cover-song "exactly" note for note someone will be offended....LOL

 

[DrayMiles]

"Transcription" should not mean just writing out stuff from a recording... It should also involve learning a line that you really like and committing it to memory. It could be part of a solo/bass line or all of it. Transcription isn't the be all end all of learning, just a facet. Ron Carter said he doesn't really believe in Transcribing, and I understand the gist of his reasoning. It tends to bring visions of having a pencil, manuscript and playing a passage over and over. Better to memorize it if you really like it... IMO...

 

[JimmyM]

"Transcription" should not mean just writing out stuff from a recording... It should also involve learning a line that you really like and committing it to memory. It could be part of a solo/bass line or all of it. Transcription isn't the be all end all of learning, just a facet. Ron Carter said he doesn't really believe in Transcribing, and I understand the gist of his reasoning. It tends to bring visions of having a pencil, manuscript and playing a passage over and over. Better to memorize it if you really like it... IMO...

I think transcribing does help greatly with reading because it forces you to understand how phrases are written out. And then it helps you commit those phrases to memory better so you can recognize them more readily when variations of them pop up in other songs. I also think it helps with the memorization process overall, too. But I fully get what Mr. Carter is saying about it not being the be-all end-all. At the end of the day, you still have to be able to play it to make it worth anything. Nobody wants to listen to music by reading sheet music

 

[DrayMiles]

I think transcribing does help greatly with reading because it forces you to understand how phrases are written out. And then it helps you commit those phrases to memory better so you can recognize them more readily when variations of them pop up in other songs. I also think it helps with the memorization process overall, too. But I fully get what Mr. Carter is saying about it not being the be-all end-all. At the end of the day, you still have to be able to play it to make it worth anything. Nobody wants to listen to music by reading sheet music

The problem I see is people play these things note for note. And people not in the know think they are doing something...

 

[somebrains]

The problem I see is people play these things note for note. And people not in the know think they are doing something...

That's always the thing that plagues kids starting jazz band.
You take the kids with the best theory and reading and throw them into basically AP music.

Some kids can't break rules easily. They need to see what's on the sheet bc saying something musically becomes difficult when you can't constrain your thoughts to changes.

It's no different than having someone study a bunch of literature then expect then to write something. It will be derivative and janky for a while.

Finding a voice takes commitment.

Music and sports was how I got over myself really early.
I dont care about failure, I'm going to go out and play my game.

I'm going to say what I want to say without regard to audience input.

I watched so many people hold themselves back in a band room.....or a field.

 

[JimmyM]

The problem I see is people play these things note for note. And people not in the know think they are doing something...

That's always the thing that plagues kids starting jazz band.
You take the kids with the best theory and reading and throw them into basically AP music.

Some kids can't break rules easily. They need to see what's on the sheet bc saying something musically becomes difficult when you can't constrain your thoughts to changes.

It's no different than having someone study a bunch of literature then expect then to write something. It will be derivative and janky for a while.

Finding a voice takes commitment.

Music and sports we're how I got over myself really early.
I dont care about failure, I'm going to go out and play my game.

I'm going to say what I want to say without regard to audience input.

I watched so many people hold themselves back in a band room.....or a field.

I agree with both of you. Before someone gets good at something, they usually suck.

 

[IamGroot]

With serious woodshedding, one could be playing easy jam tunes in a few month, and be doing low end gigs in a year.

I recommend community night classes as a focused learning method where you are locked into a study/ growth mode. Note that some classes focus on chart reading and other programs focus on Real Book/improv skills. Both are good, depending on what your goals are.

Listen to jazz (especially Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue", get a real book and start learning the easier tunes, learn the fundemental scales (diatonic major and pentatonic modes for starters ) and then have someone show you how the scales link up to the chords in the real book. A particularly valuable exercise is to learn walking lines for blues with jazz changes (i.e. 2 5 1). Aebersold and others have great learning resources for this. If you play piano, i highly recommend Levine's book.

If you can play the jazz blues changes, you can start playing at jazz jams. Jams are a great way to learn jazz and put you on the road to jazz gigs.
I play bass for a beginning jazz improv class and watch those folks struggle. I tell em to keep practicing and not give up.

 

[somebrains]

Maybe not years of practice to get started, but many years to get to a high proficiency.

I recommend community night classes as a focused learning method where you are locked into a study/ growth mode.

Listen to jazz (especially Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue", get a real book and start learning the easier tunes, learn the fundemental scales (diatonic major and pentatonic modes for starters ) and then have someone show you how the scales link up to the chords in the real book. A particularly valuable exercise is to learn walking lines for blues with jazz changes (i.e. 2 5 1). Aebersold and others have great learning resources for this. If you play piano, i highly recommend Levine's book.

I play bass for a beginning jazz improv class and watch those folks struggle. I tell em to keep practicing and not give up.

I was lucky bc I sat with a baritone sax for a semester before telling my middle school teacher I was dusting off the pbass or just quitting. Lugging that beast on 2 buses and an 8 block walk home was horrific. Damn thing fell off my neck strap daily.

Playing the bari was physically taxing, bass horn guys thought I was a wimp.
I took to blasting them in soccer or baseball practice.

The lines were easy compared to alto or tenor sax.

I never wanted to go full on Conservatory.
I knew by high school that devoting my life to Jazz was no different than deciding at 15 you were going to be a doctor, sculptor, or a lawyer.

There is so much to playing jazz properly that even following scat lines on a 6-string bass is its own sub-deal.

The level of par proficiency to play sheets cold is rigorous.
If you want to do it, commit, don't take any short cuts.

 

[IamGroot]

my approach was to go to music school for jazz and classical guitar...practice 8-10 hours a day for like a decade...get major depression and PTSD from even thinking about playing jazz...take a decade off wandering around in the wilderness (i.e. golf)...switch to bass when you finally get annoyed with your uncle pestering you to join his band...AND JAZZ WILL MAGICALLY MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

youll also be able to magically sight read.

I have seen horn players at two different community colleges that arent any better than when they were 20 years ago. Sometimes, tough love is a good thing.

I am currently feeling the pressure in vocal performance class. Getting the tough love. At least i havent had to sing laying flat on my back with weights on my belly.

 

[somebrains]

I'd see kids from MI Hollywood busking at the Hollywood/Highland Metro Station and think, that kid has commitment. Same thing with kids around San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, London.

They could play a horn, strings, guitar, bass, whatever.

I agree with tough love here, imminent destruction of your dreams if you don't put the work in.

It's one thing to say you are committed to being something. It's another to constantly prove it.

 

[retslock]

I think transcribing does help greatly with reading because it forces you to understand how phrases are written out. And then it helps you commit those phrases to memory better so you can recognize them more readily when variations of them pop up in other songs. I also think it helps with the memorization process overall, too. But I fully get what Mr. Carter is saying about it not being the be-all end-all. At the end of the day, you still have to be able to play it to make it worth anything. Nobody wants to listen to music by reading sheet music

Transcribing helped me a great deal. It taught me a lot about phrasing. I don't necessarily play "What's Goin' On" exactly like the record these days but learning the phasing gave me an insight into how to approach it - not for the note choices but rhythmically it was very valuable. Some of the parts I've tanscribed by Jaco in particular, I still can't play at the right tempo but I still learned plenty writing them down.