Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread

[Brad Johnson]

While that is always possible, there is also a very real possibility that they would still sound very similar with you playing them as well. We should be open to that possibility too .

I never said it wasn't a possibility. THAnd is betting on one outcome and I don't think that's as likely as he does.

Also a while back someone had asked about what the stock pickup sounded like in a mix.

While it still sounded like a decent enough P bass, it didn't have the rich overtones I expect from a GREAT Precision. It was lacking "character" in the mix for lack of a better description. This REALLY showed up big time in a "live mix". The Lollar fills out the mix much better than the stock SX pickup IMO, and does exactly what I expect a really good P pickup to do. I fought with a couple of other pickups before I was getting exactly what I wanted.

The Fender "Original/62 RI) " P bass pickup (that was installed in the SX for a while) gave me what I was looking for, and the Lollar gave me just a bit more of that.

Actually, the Fener "Original/62 RI) doesn't give up much to the Lollar. They sound VERY similar as well, with just a bit more "richness, and overtones" being present with the Lollar.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm posting from my phone, so I don't think multi-quoting and addressing all of this will be worth the effort.

I'm also tempted to stay with the current theme and be a smartass, but I'll pass this time.

Looks like you failed on that one already...

AGAIN, you wrote:

"Originally Posted by THand
Well, what do you want him to do, buy studio time and hire different artist to cut multiple tracks with his 2 basses and put that up? If you foot the bill, he may do that for ya, but otherwise I don't know what else you expect someone posting on a thread to do. Did you give Ed Friedland a hard time about his Squier/Fender shootout too?"

You apparently can't see smartass if it comes from within. And again, I'm not complaining about it... you are.

I've got no problem with anyone thinking the basses don't sound very similar, so trying to create a riff between Mongo and myself won't work. I happen to think they do sound a lot alike, and that's not an accident since Savit deliberately modded it for that purpose. All I can do is use my own ears, and I'll be the first to admit mine aren't "golden". Others may very well hear something I don't. I hear nothing different that couldn't be attributed to the age of the strings. But that's just my ears and my opinion, YMMV.

I wasn't trying to "create a riff, I merely pointed out that the two of you are at odds with EACH OTHER what you heard and while you're both going back and forth at me, why not take some time and address someone else you don't agree with.

Because...? Maybe he has the "golden" ears you speak of?





I've already explained my position way too many times, if either of you were going to get it you would've gotten it by now. That too is an observation based on your participation in this thread.

IOW you're both right. Enjoy.

Gotta run.

 

[mongo2]

The fact still remains that the SX performed as well as the Pre-CBS Fender.

 

[blubolt]

The fact still remains that the SX performed as well as the Pre-CBS Fender.

lol! I think the fact is that the player played both instruments equally well.

I "think" the SX was the main instrument on the first song and the Fender was the main on the second (this may have already been answered, i just couldn't slog through all the posts).

In any case, the recording was well done, and the tunes are pretty cool.

my .02

 

[mongo2]

lol! I think the fact is that the player played both instruments equally well.

Yes, that's a given.

 

[THand]

Looks like you failed on that one already...

AGAIN, you wrote:

"Originally Posted by THand
Well, what do you want him to do, buy studio time and hire different artist to cut multiple tracks with his 2 basses and put that up? If you foot the bill, he may do that for ya, but otherwise I don't know what else you expect someone posting on a thread to do. Did you give Ed Friedland a hard time about his Squier/Fender shootout too?"

You apparently can't see smartass if it comes from within. And again, I'm not complaining about it... you are.

If you're as good at reading and comprehending as you think you are, and expect others to be, you would understand that I was refering to refraining from not being a smartass in my particular post last night.

The quote you keep posting and have called smartass and snotty, was a serious question, and only intended to be taken as such...even the part about Ed Friedlands shootout. Did you give him a hard time too? Why or whynot?

... why not take some time and address someone else you don't agree with.

Because...? Maybe he has the "golden" ears you speak of?

No, because nobody else acts like if they aren't agreed with, then everybody else is stupid or has a fragile ego that needs supporting from an SX vs Fender thread...except you.

I've already explained my position way too many times, if either of you were going to get it you would've gotten it by now. That too is an observation based on your participation in this thread.

IOW you're both right. Enjoy.

Gotta run.

You're explanations are not as brilliant as you seem to think they are. Nothing but straw-men, IMO, considering the OP.

 

[Dark Horse]

I went and listened to the tracks on Myspace, both of which I liked BTW.

Though the basses sounded different from each other on my Event monitors, telling which is the "vintage P and which is the SX" in the mix would be about like trying to tell "which is the red P Bass and which is the green one". Both tracks sounded great, both sounded like P Basses, both were well played. P Basses often sound slightly different from one another anyway.

So it gets to the heart of the matter - a good player can make any reasonable quality instrument sound great. So then it comes down to what "feels" comfortable to the player.

I did some sound clips a while back of an Am Std Jazz, a SX Jazz, and a P Bass - 80% of the people couldn't accurately tell which of the 3 samples was a SX Jazz, and these were basically naked tracks. In fact, many couldn't accurately tell which was the P Bass either.

IOW, "worry less" and "play more".... which I think goes straight to the point that Savit is trying to make. Play what makes you happy. We shouldn't have to constantly justify the instruments we choose to play.

 

[Jim Dep]

Also a while back someone had asked about what the stock pickup sounded like in a mix.

While it still sounded like a decent enough P bass, it didn't have the rich overtones I expect from a GREAT Precision. It was lacking "character" in the mix for lack of a better description. This REALLY showed up big time in a "live mix". The Lollar fills out the mix much better than the stock SX pickup IMO, and does exactly what I expect a really good P pickup to do. I fought with a couple of other pickups before I was getting exactly what I wanted.

The Fender "Original/62 RI) " P bass pickup (that was installed in the SX for a while) gave me what I was looking for, and the Lollar gave me just a bit more of that.

Actually, the Fener "Original/62 RI) doesn't give up much to the Lollar. They sound VERY similar as well, with just a bit more "richness, and overtones" being present with the Lollar.

Thanks for your review comparing the pickups. When I recently tried out a new MIA P-bass Deluxe at a music store, ( right handed, so I played upside down) I could hear the character difference that you mentioned, with the USA Fender compared to the SX. The MIM basses didn't have the same character either. I wasn't sure if the difference was all in the PUP's but your impression between the 3 pickups might motivate me to try the Lollars or the Original/62 RI's. I was thinking about Bill Lawrence pups, however I'm concerned they might be too clean and lack the character I hear in the new MIA P-bass Deluxes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you're as good at reading and comprehending as you think you are, and expect others to be, you would understand that I was refering to refraining from not being a smartass in my particular post last night.

You didn't refrain from being snotty and you complained about others doing the same.

The quote you keep posting and have called smartass and snotty, was a serious question, and only intended to be taken as such...even the part about Ed Friedlands shootout. Did you give him a hard time too? Why or whynot?

You didn't like the simple truthful answer I gave to your "serious" question... that makes the seriousness of it questionable to me.

And I've never seen Ed's shootout and don't place much stock in that sort of thing anyway. Sound familiar?

If Ed came here with a shootout and proclaimed that his shootout proved overall equality, yes, I'd take exception to that if I happened to see the thread. What's the logic, because it's Ed F. I wouldn't disagree where it applies?


I happened to see this thread and voiced my, oh what's it called...?

OPINION. Disagree? Fine. Think I'm calling you something? Knock yourself out. I'm using pretty plain language and what should be easily comprehended statements. You guys think something was proven that I clearly don't. You're trying to convince me that I'd sound very similar on both basses. I find that assumption basically just plain lacking in serious thought. Talking about things you obviously don't know as if you do is not something "I" would do. Can't imagine even being comfortable doing it. I've explained why I disagree and you ignore the words. So again, you're right.

No, because nobody else acts like if they aren't agreed with, then everybody else is stupid or has a fragile ego that needs supporting from an SX vs Fender thread...except you.

There's a smiley for that...


If you feel that way it may just be a you thing. But feel free to blame me... it's not like anyone's complaining about golden ears, being treated badly, image, snobbery, no respect or any of the other stuff I guess I didn't read in this thread from SX proponents.


Seriously. I must've imagined it all.

You're explanations are not as brilliant as you seem to think they are. Nothing but straw-men, IMO, considering the OP.

For some no amount of brilliance could penetrate their natural defenses. You're absolutely right.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I went and listened to the tracks on Myspace, both of which I liked BTW.

Though the basses sounded different from each other on my Event monitors, telling which is the "vintage P and which is the SX" in the mix would be about like trying to tell "which is the red P Bass and which is the green one". Both tracks sounded great, both sounded like P Basses, both were well played. P Basses often sound slightly different from one another anyway.

So it gets to the heart of the matter - a good player can make any reasonable quality instrument sound great. So then it comes down to what "feels" comfortable to the player.

I did some sound clips a while back of an Am Std Jazz, a SX Jazz, and a P Bass - 80% of the people couldn't accurately tell which of the 3 samples was a SX Jazz, and these were basically naked tracks. In fact, many couldn't accurately tell which was the P Bass either.

IOW, "worry less" and "play more".... which I think goes straight to the point that Savit is trying to make. Play what makes you happy. We shouldn't have to constantly justify the instruments we choose to play.

You don't. That's been one of my main points all along.

 

[THand]

Invalid Link Removed

Don't click the link, whatever you do!



You may be exposed to some things too difficult to comprehend. You have been warned!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Invalid Link Removed

Don't click the link, whatever you do!



You may be exposed to some things too difficult to comprehend. You have been warned!

I seriously mean no offense but if you somehow have the idea that I'm some vintage Fender guy you really don't have a clue.

I've been recommending MIM and later on Squier instruments for years. I don't play vintage Fenders. The newest Fender I own is a 2002 FMY and I rarely play that.

That apparently is too difficult for someone to comprehend.

If OTOH you think Ed is saying that ANYONE won't find a difference between a Squier and ANY OTHER Fender...

I guess the correct answer is you're right.

You were warned.

 

[savit260]

Thanks for your review comparing the pickups. When I recently tried out a new MIA P-bass Deluxe at a music store, ( right handed, so I played upside down) I could hear the character difference that you mentioned, with the USA Fender compared to the SX. The MIM basses didn't have the same character either. I wasn't sure if the difference was all in the PUP's but your impression between the 3 pickups might motivate me to try the Lollars or the Original/62 RI's. I was thinking about Bill Lawrence pups, however I'm concerned they might be too clean and lack the character I hear in the new MIA P-bass Deluxes.

I'm not sure which pickup they're using in the Precison Deluxe these days, but the stock pickup in the American Standard Precision is pretty good over all IMO. I honestly think what screws up the tone on the new MIA's is that new High Mass Bridge. Not that it sounds terrible (it's actually pretty darned good), just not as good as the Old Fender or SX (required IMO)
One of these days I'm going to dump the high mass bridge, and swap in a previous generation "bent metal" bridge, and see if it cures it.


Edit to add: I'm not sure what people mean when they are saying they listened to "both" tracks????? There is a total of 11 or 12 tracks between the two links posted.

 

[THand]

I seriously mean no offense but if you somehow have the idea that I'm some vintage Fender guy you really don't have a clue.

I've been recommending MIM and later on Squier instruments for years. I don't play vintage Fenders. The newest Fender I own is a 2002 FMY and I rarely play that.

That apparently is too difficult for someone to comprehend.

If OTOH you think Ed is saying that ANYONE won't find a difference between a Squier and ANY OTHER Fender...

I guess the correct answer is you're right.

You were warned.

LOL. No I don't have that impression of you, and FWIW(if anything) I don't have a personal problem with you at all. Some of your comments, I called them like I saw them, and you did the same with mine. I'm cool with that. IRL we could probably actually "talk" and IMO disagree on very little.
Get Obama to set up another "beer summit". We could be "besties", LOL.

 

[Dark Horse]

You don't. That's been one of my main points all along.

Hell, I'm just happy to be able to play. Sure I have my "go to" basses and stuff, but if I had to play a gig with a Squier Affinity, I'd still be happy as a clam. I know how I play, how to get my sound, etc, with just about any bass. I was paralyzed when I was younger (broken neck), so the fact that I can play is a miracle, let alone do it at a professional level.

 

[THand]

Hell, I'm just happy to be able to play. Sure I have my "go to" basses and stuff, but if I had to play a gig with a Squier Affinity, I'd still be happy as a clam. I know how I play, how to get my sound, etc, with just about any bass. I was paralyzed when I was younger (broken neck), so the fact that I can play is a miracle, let alone do it at a professional level.

+1

Being grateful for what you have and where you are is the key to happiness. That does sound like a real miracle, I'm happy for you!
I enjoyed your shootout as well. IIRC, I only got about 60% correct there,LOL.

 

[Brad Johnson]

LOL. No I don't have that impression of you, and FWIW(if anything) I don't have a personal problem with you at all. Some of your comments, I called them like I saw them, and you did the same with mine. I'm cool with that. IRL we could probably actually "talk" and IMO disagree on very little.
Get Obama to set up another "beer summit". We could be "besties", LOL.

You're right.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Hell, I'm just happy to be able to play. Sure I have my "go to" basses and stuff, but if I had to play a gig with a Squier Affinity, I'd still be happy as a clam. I know how I play, how to get my sound, etc, with just about any bass. I was paralyzed when I was younger (broken neck), so the fact that I can play is a miracle, let alone do it at a professional level.

That's great.


What bass you use is a double-edged sword to many folks. Use a boutique bass and if you sound great it's because of the bass. Use an inexpensive bass and wow, that bass sounds a lot better than they thought it would. I wonder if there will ever be a price point at which those people will realize that for better or worse... it's mainly you.

 

[Sam Evans]

That's great.


What bass you use is a double-edged sword to many folks. Use a boutique bass and if you sound great it's because of the bass. Use an inexpensive bass and wow, that bass sounds a lot better than they thought it would. I wonder if there will ever be a price point at which those people will realize that for better or worse... it's mainly you.

Yep, it's right around $800 - the price of a MIJ Fender.

 

[Dark Horse]

That's great.


What bass you use is a double-edged sword to many folks. Use a boutique bass and if you sound great it's because of the bass. Use an inexpensive bass and wow, that bass sounds a lot better than they thought it would.

Sadly, true. Too many people use they're eyes to tell them that a player is good, not their ears. They see a certain type of gear and automatically go into the frame of mind that "this musician must be good", or "this band must be bad". Sometimes the gear gives an adequate clue, but not always. Down here in Austin, I can't tell you the number of times I've seen amazing players that play on what consider to be "subpar" gear. I've also seen a number of mediocre (or worse) players with top notch equipment.

I wonder if there will ever be a price point at which those people will realize that for better or worse... it's mainly you.

Highly unlikely - but you know this.

You know how many musicians are - they stand watching, arms folded, with the words "I can do that" basically tattooed on their foreheads. In their minds, good equipment "must" be the only reason that you're on stage, and not them - because CERTAINLY they are "at least" as good of a player as you.