Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread

[savit260]

Sorry, I missed the side note part. For some reason I thought the point of comparing SX's and Fenders' in the mix was getting convoluted, with a new criteria being added.

:

It was more about how a bass sounds on it's own vs. how it sounds in the context of a band setting (ie. "in a mix"). Some may put more emphisis on one , and someone else may put more on the other.

I know with my own personal basses, the one that happends to sound best by itself IMO, is my LEAST favorite in a live setting or "mix".

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sorry, I missed the side note part. For some reason I thought the point of comparing SX's and Fenders' in the mix was getting convoluted, with a new criteria being added.

There are live bands out there ( usually kids starting out) that have bass players, guitarists, drummers etc with few skills and are more concerned with volume competition than what the over all mix is like. Hopefully the lessons learned from going into a studio can be invaluable for a new awareness about the overall mix. The band should be much tighter on stage after spending hours in a studio listening to the parts being put together.........and this has nothing to do with whatever point I was attempting to make...

That's the natural progression of this tangent... how manyh know or even care what the mix is?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sorry, I missed the side note part. For some reason I thought the point of comparing SX's and Fenders' in the mix was getting convoluted, with a new criteria being added.

There are live bands out there ( usually kids starting out) that have bass players, guitarists, drummers etc with few skills and are more concerned with volume competition than what the over all mix is like. Hopefully the lessons learned from going into a studio can be invaluable for a new awareness about the overall mix. The band should be much tighter on stage after spending hours in a studio listening to the parts being put together.........and this has nothing to do with whatever point I was attempting to make...

If having lots of ability was a requirement to be in a band... I'd be out of work LOL!!

Nah, just talking good enough to play long with others... something we take for granted.

 

[Jim Dep]

Nah, just talking good enough to play long with others... something we take for granted.

True. I started playing when I was fifteen and had the confidence to jam with other players ,after a year of taking lessons and practicing for hours a day. I wore out a few needles on the turntable and sometimes played albums on 45rpm to hear the bass better in the mix ( I'm doing my best to connect the dots )

My goal was to find people more skilled than myself.......which was pretty easy to do.

Come to think of it, I guess that hasn't changed

 

[Jim Dep]

It was more about how a bass sounds on it's own vs. how it sounds in the context of a band setting (ie. "in a mix"). Some may put more emphisis on one , and someone else may put more on the other.

I know with my own personal basses, the one that happends to sound best by itself IMO, is my LEAST favorite in a live setting or "mix".

I can relate. I had an Alembic for a while that sounded great in the studio but live I never felt like I could sink my teeth ( not literally) into it the same way on stage I could a Fender. I dragged that humongous Alembic case around with me from gig to gig and only played it on a few tunes. The novelty of having it kinda died on the vine, but I'm sure kicking myself now for selling it. Did I mention that I liked your SX tone?

 

[higgi]

I have owned a 78 American P, SX, and Rogue at the same time. Stock they sounded fine, have been used live several times.

A pickup change made both cheapies more compressed sounding and hi fi. When I compared the stock SX, Rogue, Quater Pounder, and 78 stock p pickup, I found the cheap stock pickups had less windings. So that might make them more punchy, dynamic, less compressed with less harmonic content. The Quarter pounder and the 78 pup were nearly identical except for the pole pieces.

Put a good pickup and 250k pots in a cheap p copy and it can sound like a real antique p bass.

 

[Doctor J]

I gave up after about 8 pages of bickering so what are we saying here, that you can't actually hear the effects of almost 50 years of wood aging, mojo and pre-CBS magic pixie dust?

Are we all agreed?

Excellent, let's move on. There's a maple vs rosewood thread in need of attention.

 

[mongo2]

...so what are we saying here, that you can't actually hear the effects of almost 50 years of wood aging, mojo and pre-CBS magic pixie dust?

Exactly.

 

[Doctor J]

Hmmm... has anyone told ebay?

 

[THand]

....so what are we saying here, that you can't actually hear the effects of almost 50 years of wood aging, mojo and pre-CBS magic pixie dust?

Are we all agreed?...

Aye, we have reached an accord.

 

[stingray69]

Aye, we have reached an accord.

And only 24 pages in...

 

[Brad Johnson]

True. I started playing when I was fifteen and had the confidence to jam with other players ,after a year of taking lessons and practicing for hours a day. I wore out a few needles on the turntable and sometimes played albums on 45rpm to hear the bass better in the mix ( I'm doing my best to connect the dots )

My goal was to find people more skilled than myself.......which was pretty easy to do.

Come to think of it, I guess that hasn't changed

I always want to play with people who raise the bar as far as skill (or whatever one wants to call it). IMO that's how you get better. I've spent way too much time explaining chords, horn lines, percussion patterns, etc. to people who for whatever reason weren't on top of their instrument. It gets old after a while with the same people. I pay attention to everything that's going on in a song, not sure why more people don't but instead simply focus on their "part".

 

[Brad Johnson]

I gave up after about 8 pages of bickering so what are we saying here, that you can't actually hear the effects of almost 50 years of wood aging, mojo and pre-CBS magic pixie dust?

Are we all agreed?

Excellent, let's move on. There's a maple vs rosewood thread in need of attention.

No, we're not all agreed. Some of us realize that there are things another bassist might hear with either of those basses IN REAL LIFE that could easily sway them towards one or the other. IOW these recordings do not paint a full picture for anyone other than possibly those hoping for a particular outcome. For example, how would either bass sound if I played it? Identical to Savit?


I'd guess we're all agreed that some people may never get any of that. They haven't so far.

 

[mongo2]

For example, how would either bass sound if I played it? Identical to Savit?

Of course the basses will sound different if somebody else plays them. That's pretty much a given.

What the recorded examples demonstrate is that if the same person plays both instruments they both can sound very good.

 

[Doctor J]

Maybe the Fender pickups are the problem. If aging, mojo, pre-CBS pixie dust, etc do exist... hear me out, come on... maybe the Fender pickups are the problem? Maybe they don't get better with age after all and aren't able to make the unquantifiable audible?



FWIW, I think the test is valid, with Lollars and whatever else. There is so much hype (and let's be brutally honest, lots of profit) sustaining the overinflated vintage market, all these amazing things which make a bass better (it's always better, isn't it) over time yet can't be charted scientifically. But if you can't hear these things in a mix, does it really matter if you can kind of make something out, maybe, possibly, when you're playing on your own in your bedroom or wherever? Surely the prevalent and defining characteristics of an instrument are in the context of other instruments? If these supposed differences can't be heard compared to a benchmark cheapo bass, regardless of the pickup swap - this test still covers aging, mojo, nitro, pre-CBD magicka, etc - and could anyone say with confidence which was which?

 

[Surly]

So what did the SX sound like before? It probably still sounded good (like a P-bass!). I hear a lot of P-bass pickup tests on here and can't tell a difference.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course the basses will sound different if somebody else plays them. That's pretty much a given.

What the recorded examples demonstrate is that if the same person plays both instruments they both can sound very good.

It demonstrated that ONE PERSON playing the instrument sounded similar. It did not demonstrate that it will happen with anyone else and in fact the results could be entirely different with someone else. Disagree?

This really does seem to be incomprehesible for some... it's not the first or even fifth time I've said this and it's still TRUE.

 

[THand]

It demonstrated that ONE PERSON playing the instrument sounded similar. It did not demonstrate that it will happen with anyone else and in fact the results could be entirely different with someone else. Disagree?

This really does seem to be incomprehesible for some... it's not the first or even fifth time I've said this and it's still TRUE.

Well, what do you want him to do, buy studio time and hire different artist to cut multiple tracks with his 2 basses and put that up? If you foot the bill, he may do that for ya, but otherwise I don't know what else you expect someone posting on a thread to do. Did you give Ed Friedland a hard time about his Squier/Fender shootout too?

I disagree in the sense that if you, Brad Johnson, played Savit's old Fender, you would sound like Brad Johnson playing Savit's old Fender. And if you then played Savit's SX with the same technique, the tone would be VERY similar what Brad Johnson sounded like playing Savit's old Fender.


You wouldn't sound like Savit, but I bet the tones you get would be indistinguishable to most as well.

You don't think that is true?

 

[mongo2]

It demonstrated that ONE PERSON playing the instrument sounded similar. It did not demonstrate that it will happen with anyone else and in fact the results could be entirely different with someone else. Disagree?

You're barking up the wrong tree.

I never said anything about the basses sounding similar, I said they "both can sound very good" and they do.

 

[ProfGumby]

For the recored, in case anyone missed it before...

The playability of the SX is VERY good after some tweaking. Easily as good as any Fender I've ever owned or played (required IMO)

If the playability wasn't there , I would have replaced it 100 shows ago or more

I agree with this too. And for me, in my experience, tweaking on any SX I have had was merely new strings and a decent setup. The modding was cause I have to tinker with things ( a mental flaw?) and not to necessity.