From now on just consider yourself right.
I get the feeling he ALWAYS does, Brad!
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Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread
- Thread starter savit260
- Start date
I get the feeling he ALWAYS does, Brad!
Not for nothing, but one of the advantages of those "wasting" their money on SX basses is low risk of spending a lot of money.
Of course there is now a low risk of even losing money while trying to "get a bass that you have to upgrade before you use it" (not my opinion).
The last 7 sales for SX's on eBay cost the buyers.... (the envelope please):
$252
$202
$200
$194
$175
$152
$145
$137
Some of those were unmodified and actually sold more than they cost new...
Of course there is now a low risk of even losing money while trying to "get a bass that you have to upgrade before you use it" (not my opinion).
The last 7 sales for SX's on eBay cost the buyers.... (the envelope please):
$252
$202
$200
$194
$175
$152
$145
$137
Some of those were unmodified and actually sold more than they cost new...
This. Why are we always comparing tonality to equate inexpensive basses with expensive ones? That's only part of the equation, and the one that can most easily be manipulated.
I guess because it's the only comparison we can really blindly compare side by side over the internet.
How does one compare playability over the pages of a forum, other than a description?
... or inviting everyone over for cookies and milk, for a hands on side by side. I've said repetedly in this thread, that the modded/fine tuned SX plays as well as any Fender I've ever owned or played. I don't expect everyone to take my word for it, but as I said before... if it didn't play well, I'd use my Fenders instead.
Do you have a ballpark price that Atomic Music was selling their used SX Ash jazz bass for, Brad?
I just heard two tracks.
Lollars change the game big time. (They are great pickups)
My guess is track #1- 64-P-bass.
Track #2 SX-P.
They both sound like a P-Bass.
Lollars change the game big time. (They are great pickups)
I haven't heard Lollars that I know of until this thread. I like the stock pick ups that came with my SX P bass and don't feel a need to change them.
Still, I'd be interested to hear a recording of the SX stock pups compared to Lollars, Fenders, Bill Lawrence, etc.
At first glance, I sort of agreed with you. But after some thought, I changed my mind. If you are in the audeance what are you concerned with? I would guess the first thing would be, can this guy play, keep time, hit the right notes and get a groove going?
The second thing, still guessing, that you would be interested in would be his tone, and how well he sets in the mix...and how well he can step out of the mix and get your attention when called for.
The third thing would be looks. This could cover anything from the bass fitting the bands image to a cool color or shape.
All of these concerns, if you will, are from a general audeance members point of view. No one buying a CD or a ticket to a show really cares if you get cramps on your hand from a less than perfect neck shape or that you hernate a disc in your back with a bass that's too heavy.
So from that POV, the LOOKS of the bass is by far the easiest to manipulate. People can chase tone their whole lives, so while it is easy to change a pup, finding the "right" pup often is not.
This thread proves that although Savit found his tone years ago in a fairly rare and expensive Fender, he was able to duplicate that tone and playability without breaking the bank. What's wrong with that? Sting did the very same thing(had the customer shop build exact replicas to go on tour with so he could retire his vintage Fender) and he no doubt has the cash to get any thing we wants.
It also proves that anyone can get out there and keep an audeance happy using an SX, if they have the skills.
As far as playability goes, Savit said it plays as good as, if not better than. the Fender. But would it matter to anyone but him if it didn't? I don't care if Wooten, Berlin, Sting, Clark, Gene Simmons, Jamerson, or Mike Watt' basses play well or would totally suck for me to play....I only care how they(the bassist) play, and how they sound. And as far as sound goes in this thread, the SX/Lollar totally gets the job done recording AND get it done live as well, since it is and has been his workhorse for a while now.
I guess because it's the only comparison we can really blindly compare side by side over the internet.
How does one compare playability over the pages of a forum, other than a description?
I've said repetedly in this thread, that the modded/fine tuned SX plays as well as any Fender I've ever owned or played. I don't expect everyone to take my word for it, but as I said before... if it didn't play well, I'd use my Fenders instead.
As long as people understand (which, obviously, many don't) that that's just a part of the overall story of an instrument.
If this thread were simply "Can an SX sound good in the mix?" it probably would've saved a few people a lot of confusion.
Unless the SX has been modified.
As an audience member, I'm not concerned about gear. But we are also musicians, so, yeah, discussing the minutae of feel is relevant....if only to ourselves.
This thread was for bassplayers, not audience members. There's a big difference between simply listening to a bass/band and being the one who has to get the sound you want out of it.
Unless you have something really out of the norm, most audiences I've seen aren't particularly concerned with the looks of an instrument... they're watching and listening to the band. But should that preclude the bassist from caring about it?
Playability would matter to the bassist. For many bassists that's important. I'd bet most if not all of the pros you mentioned care about it and if their bass was rendered unplayable for them it would show in their performance.
Actually I predicted the audience angle a while back in this thread
. It's largely unimportant to me and many other bassists... I honestly don't know why a bassist would go there. If we make ourselves happy with our gear that typically translates into a better performance than if we're unhappy.
Unless the SX has been modified.
Potentially true.
These comparos at best might give one a ballpark idea of a facet of an instrument. I have never heard a recording that truly rivalled what I've heard live IRL. I've never heard bassists who play exactly like I do. How I interact with an instrument is the main arbiter of whether or not a bass "wins" when I check it out. I don't care who else it sounds good with.
That doesn't mean someone else shouldn't be happy with whatever they want to be happy with as proof of something. I just think in this case the "proof" and "facts", however well intended are ultimately pretty weak. That's just the nature of the beast. I have basses that I wouldn't dream of gigging with that I'm sure could sound fine on recordings.
The thread is for both. I listen to and watch people other than myself. Example: If I listen to Savit's bands, I will do so as a audience member, not a member of his band. I still care about how the bass sounds. If I go see Wooten, I am going to be upset if his bass sounds like crap. True, there is a difference between listening and having to find the sound you want, but Savit seems to have accomplished finding his sound, is able to duplicate it in a much cheaper bass and seems pretty happy with the situation.
No, I agree the bassist should care about it, but we all have different taste...so while a quilted top from the dagobah system may be the ultimate look for you, it may completely turn me off. Many bands try to entertain beyond just music, and in those bands people do notice what if you are playing fits the bands image.
For them...that's the key. I care very much about the playability of my basses, and am very picky about my setups...that doesn't mean you would like how they played, or that I would like how yours played. It also doesn't mean either would be bad players just because we had a personal dislike for each others setup. Do you think Jaco would have found Jamerson's bass playable, or vise-versa? IMO, I doubt it.
Actually I predicted the audience angle a while back in this thread
It should be very important to a performing musician...that's what sound checks are for. If you don't perform, well, you're right...what you sound like is between you and your neighbors.
I do agree that if we are happy with our gear that should translate into a better performance.
Sorry for not sharing the enthusiasm, but am I the only one who thinks this kind of comparisons are irrelevant? Maybe I am being naive and amateur here, but isn't the actual bassline that counts?
<- naive, unprofessional bassist hiding away.
On the other hand, does the recording device make justice to the tone differences between the two basses?
<- naive, unprofessional bassist hiding away.On the other hand, does the recording device make justice to the tone differences between the two basses?
Potentially true.
These comparos at best might give one a ballpark idea of a facet of an instrument. I have never heard a recording that truly rivalled what I've heard live IRL. I've never heard bassists who play exactly like I do. How I interact with an instrument is the main arbiter of whether or not a bass "wins" when I check it out. I don't care who else it sounds good with.
That doesn't mean someone else shouldn't be happy with whatever they want to be happy with as proof of something. I just think in this case the "proof" and "facts", however well intended are ultimately pretty weak. That's just the nature of the beast. I have basses that I wouldn't dream of gigging with that I'm sure could sound fine on recordings.
No problem with your comments here, just wondering why you wouldn't gig them? If they sound good, is it weight, looks, feel, because you endorse a different brand, or something else?
