If a tree falls in the forrest do pickups actually make a difference

[climber]

FWIW I wave been playing bass professionally since 1966. Take my comments for what they are worth...

1) A great player can make darn near any instrument sound passable, if not good.

2) The best pickups cannot make a POS bass sound good.

3) I have 5 basses. Each one sounds great unamplified and different. The pickups on each are different and chosen to enhance the inherent sound of that instrument.

4) I do agree that strings can at times have a surprising impact on an instruments sound. However, I think that there is a optimum string type that will bring out the best in that instrument.

5) Don't try to turn a P-bass into a MusicMan.

 

[Hopkins]

FWIW I wave been playing bass professionally since 1966. Take my comments for what they are worth...

1) A great player can make darn near any instrument sound passable, if not good.

2) The best pickups cannot make a POS bass sound good.

3) I have 5 basses. Each one sounds great unamplified and different. The pickups on each are different and chosen to enhance the inherent sound of that instrument.

4) I do agree that strings can at times have a surprising impact on an instruments sound. However, I think that there is a optimum string type that will bring out the best in that instrument.

5) Don't try to turn a P-bass into a MusicMan.

If the neck is good and there isn't a bunch of fret buzz, I am gonna have to go ahead and say you are absolutely wrong about this.

 

[Marial]

This is my opinion, I'm sure others will have other ideas.

Pickups/Preamp 50%
Strings 40%
Fretboard wood 5.5%
Bridge 4%
Body Wood 0.5%

I agree with this with regards to slab-bodied instruments.

 

[6stringpanda]

Strings=99.999999%-lol

But seriously cannot believe how much difference strings make!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Can good wood make up for cheap pups? Can kick ass pups make up for cheap wood?

There's no such thing as good or bad or cheap wood.

Wood is wood. There's different kinds of wood. The weights and densities affect the tone you get from them. Stiffness, especially for the neck, is one of the largest contributing factors in the tone of a bass.

Now different instruments have their own tone. If you have a bright sounding bass when it's unplugged, think about the tone you want. Then get pickups to work towards that tone. If the bass is kind of dark, get brighter pickups, etc., unless you want a dark tone.

And embrace the tone of that bass. Don't try to make it sound like a different bass. You can alter the tone somewhat, but the root of the tone starts with the bass.

This is my opinion, I'm sure others will have other ideas.

Pickups/Preamp 50%
Strings 40%
Fretboard wood 5.5%
Bridge 4%
Body Wood 0.5%

I would say "neck construction 50% or more"

The body plays a much bigger part too. I base that on the identical basses I have with identical pickup, but made from different woods. Even different top wood. They asound very different.

As far as pickups, a pickup reproduces the sound of the bass. it does add it's own character too, but it will always sound like that bass when it's unplugged. Some pickups more so than others.

I also find the bridge plays a larger part, depending on what it's made from. On one of my basses, which has a zebrawood top and cherry body, it was a very warm and smooth sounding bass. I wanted a little more air out of it. It had a brass bridge, so I changed that for a light weight aluminum bridge. Now it sounds like a different bass. It almost has an acoustic guitar like quality when it's unplugged.

 

[GlennW]

Imo/e, strings + pickups = about 90%

When I was trying to find a split-P I liked I tried one (about the 10th pickup) in a plywood test bass which had TI JF344s on it. I really liked the sound, and was all excited about trying it in my "real wood" P bass with LaBella DT760FM's. Results...NO deal.

I figured (wrong or right) that the pickup/string combination had the biggest impact on sound/tone.

Free Advice:
Choose your pickup AFTER you're sure which strings you'll be using.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Choose your pickup AFTER you're sure which strings you'll be using.

Or, you may also have to find strings that work with that pickup/bass combination.

I used to use GHS Boomers on my P bass with Dimarzio pickups back in the 80s, but they were too midrangy with my Rick with a Hi-A pickup at the bridge. So I used GHS Bassics on that bass.

Every part impacts the tone. Your plucking fingers too.

 

[Jensby design]

I would say "neck construction 50% or more"

The body plays a much bigger part too. I base that on the identical basses I have with identical pickup, but made from different woods. Even different top wood. They sound very different.

As far as pickups, a pickup reproduces the sound of the bass. it does add it's own character too, but it will always sound like that bass when it's unplugged..

Don't you make pickup for a living?

 

[Britbonic]

5) Don't try to turn a P-bass into a MusicMan.

Or visa versa.

 

[Hopkins]

I would say "neck construction 50% or more"

The body plays a much bigger part too. I base that on the identical basses I have with identical pickup, but made from different woods. Even different top wood. They asound very different.

As far as pickups, a pickup reproduces the sound of the bass. it does add it's own character too, but it will always sound like that bass when it's unplugged. Some pickups more so than others.

I also find the bridge plays a larger part, depending on what it's made from. On one of my basses, which has a zebrawood top and cherry body, it was a very warm and smooth sounding bass. I wanted a little more air out of it. It had a brass bridge, so I changed that for a light weight aluminum bridge. Now it sounds like a different bass. It almost has an acoustic guitar like quality when it's unplugged.

My experience is different than yours. Neck construction can have an effect on the presence or location of dead spots, but the tonal difference is minimal. Using a P bass as an example, I have two, one alder, one a Squier agathis body, both with Fender 62 pickups, both with maple fret boards. They sound basically the same plugged in, but the agathis body is much more resonant when played acoustically.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

My experience is different than yours. Neck construction can have an effect on the presence or location of dead spots, but the tonal difference is minimal. Using a P bass as an example, I have two, one alder, one a Squier agathis body, both with Fender 62 pickups, both with maple fret boards. They sound basically the same plugged in, but the agathis body is much more resonant when played acoustically.

Because that's a non laminated neck.

Now make a stiffer neck with something like 5 lams and with two different woods, say maple and purpleheart, and some graphite.

Now replace the maple slab neck on one of those bodies and hear how much clearer and present your low end is. P basses are very midrange heavy, which is part of their tone.

You are comparing the same neck on different bodies. Now try a differently designed neck.

I also agree about body wood. But I learned this when I turned a maple neck P bass with alder body into an 8-string bass. It was very harsh sounding in the upper mids and lacked low end warmth. It required drastic EQ to sound good.

So I made a new neck for it; 7 piece quarter sawn maple and walnut, with 2 truss rods, graphite, and an ebony fingerboard. Between the fingerboard and neck shaft were maple and purpleheart veneers.

On the same body with the same pickups and strings, it sounded like a totally different bass. Huge but clear low end and a smooth bright top end. Very full range with the EQ set flat.

Fender designs are very minimalistic, and while I think P basses sound great, there is room for improvement on the design.

 

[Hopkins]

Because that's a non laminated neck.

Now make a stiffer neck with something like 5 lams and with two different woods, say maple and purpleheart, and some graphite.

Now replace the maple slab neck on one of those bodies and hear how much clearer and present your low end is. P basses are very midrange heavy, which is part of their tone.

You are comparing the same neck on different bodies. Now try a differently designed neck.

I also agree about body wood. But I learned this when I turned a maple neck P bass with alder body into an 8-string bass. It was very harsh sounding in the upper mids and lacked low end warmth. It required drastic EQ to sound good.

So I made a new neck for it; 7 piece quarter sawn maple and walnut, with 2 truss rods, graphite, and an ebony fingerboard. Between the fingerboard and neck shaft were maple and purpleheart veneers.

On the same body with the same pickups and strings, it sounded like a totally different bass. Huge but clear low end and a smooth bright top end. Very full range with the EQ set flat.

Fender designs are very minimalistic, and while I think P basses sound great, there is room for improvement on the design.

I'm pretty sure it would still sound like a P bass with a 7 piece laminated neck. Unless I am using the wrong tone glue in my builds.

 

[GlennW]

I'm pretty sure it would still sound like a P bass with a 7 piece laminated neck. Unless I am using the wrong tone glue in my builds.

I hear Gorilla Glue has more bite.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I'm pretty sure it would still sound like a P bass with a 7 piece laminated neck. Unless I am using the wrong tone glue in my builds.

The necks will sound different. You hear the difference between a maple and rosewood P neck right?

Try some original designs and see how they sound. It will open your ears.

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

Pickups make a huge difference IMO. I played a rosewood FB alder bodied passive jazz with everything open and it was pretty damn bright. I then ABed it with this ash bodied maple necked active jazz. You would think that it would be much brighter right? Wrong, those stupid fender noiseless pickups were so muddy sounding even with the treble and midrange on full.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Here's the thing that always seems to be missing from these discussions:

The wood won't change the tone on the strings unless the wood can physically flex and move. Stationary, non-moving wood doesn't generate "tone".

If you build the neck and body super stiff, by dimensions and construction, then it doesn't matter what wood you make them from. They will all sound the same. Cold and sterile. But with great sustain.

The weaker and more flexible you make the neck and body, the more the wood is able to change the tone on the strings, and the more you will be able to hear the differences between species of woods.

Most mass production electric basses are built excessively stiff, because it's the lowest risk in terms of quality control. As a result, their sound is mostly strings and pickups. And a whole aftermarket industry has grown up making special pickups to retrofit on these stiff production basses, to try and improve their tone.

But when you work with the structure of the bass, allowing the neck and body to flex with the strings, you can bring in character to the tone that pickups alone are incapable of adding. That's what we Luthiers do; push the wood structure to shape the tone.

 

[staindbass]

i agree with what bruce said. i prefer the lighter resonant woods. they sound more organic, whereas the stiff ones are almost too consistent, like an electronic keyboard. they do not seem as alive to me. you can change pickups and vary the frequency response and stuff, but not what the bass is actually sounding like. i had an ibanez bass made out of luthite, a polymer or something. yup, the mids and highs sounded like plastic not even plugged in the amp.

 

[Hopkins]

Bruce, Isn't the reason for using multiple lament necks, and carbon rods, to increase the stiffness, and stability of the instrument? I have never met a builder that builds their necks to have flex in them.

If you ask people to listen to a solid body electric bass, just about everyone with a little bit of knowledge will be able to tell you which bass has hotter pickups, or brighter sounding strings. If you ask them to tell what the resonant qualities and stiffness of the wood is by the way the bass sounds, how many people could give you a positive answer?

 

[mcblahflooper94]

Here's the thing that always seems to be missing from these discussions:

The wood won't change the tone on the strings unless the wood can physically flex and move. Stationary, non-moving wood doesn't generate "tone".

If you build the neck and body super stiff, by dimensions and construction, then it doesn't matter what wood you make them from. They will all sound the same. Cold and sterile. But with great sustain.

The weaker and more flexible you make the neck and body, the more the wood is able to change the tone on the strings, and the more you will be able to hear the differences between species of woods.

Most mass production electric basses are built excessively stiff, because it's the lowest risk in terms of quality control. As a result, their sound is mostly strings and pickups. And a whole aftermarket industry has grown up making special pickups to retrofit on these stiff production basses, to try and improve their tone.

But when you work with the structure of the bass, allowing the neck and body to flex with the strings, you can bring in character to the tone that pickups alone are incapable of adding. That's what we Luthiers do; push the wood structure to shape the tone.

Where did you hear this? Not to be rude, but you're completely wrong. Wood affects the tone (the small amount that it does) because the sound frequencies resonate into the wood. The same way that when you hit a piece of good quality (DENSE) wood, it will produce a definite audible knocking sound. Several reasons harder woods are preferred:
-higher mass=more sustain, because the atoms are tighter together so a soundwave can travel through them easier.
-durability: you don't want to walk around with a bass made out of extremely light wood for two hours a night in a bar.
-crafting. think about it, you're drilling holes in this thing, cutting cavities in it, sanding it, chiseling it, putting BOLTS into it... screws, cavities and areas that have to withstand tension or else the wood will start splitting.

Maybe you're right about one thing though. I suppose that lighter and more flexible woods will impact the tone more (likely negatively) but I don't want light and flimsy woods on my basses.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Bruce, Isn't the reason for using multiple lament necks, and carbon rods, to increase the stiffness, and stability of the instrument? I have never met a builder that builds their necks to have flex in them.

If you ask people to listen to a solid body electric bass, just about everyone with a little bit of knowledge will be able to tell you which bass has hotter pickups, or brighter sounding strings. If you ask them to tell what the resonant qualities and stiffness of the wood is by the way the bass sounds, how many people could give you a positive answer?

Hopkins; the goal isn't to build the stiffest neck possible. Why would we want to do that? That would result in, well, a Steinberger. A carbon fiber slab with pickups and a cold, synthetic sound. Cool for some applications, but most bassists don't want that sound.

From the days of Leo, wooden framed basses have always been preferred because of the way the flexing of the wood frame softens and warms the sound of the steel strings. All manufacturers play around with the structures of their instruments to shape the tone. Look at Rickenbackers, for example. They have very flexible necks and bodies, which is a main part of their characteristic tone. And a part of their notorious stability issues....How about Gibson with their mahogany necks? That's done for rich tone.

Fenders tend to use stiffer construction overall, and there's a lot of variation between models and individual instruments. Usually, the Fenders that players pick out as the best sounding, one in a thousand types, will have the softer more flexible frames. High end builders of Fender-style basses, like Sadowsky and Lull, use all kinds of tricks in the way they build the necks and bodies to get that sound. There are a lot of tradeoffs involved, getting the frame soft enough to bring out the warmth and richness, without losing too much sustain and frequency range.

Making a bass really stiff and stable is easy. But that's not what we're trying to do.

Obviously, this is a huge subject, and there's a lot of misunderstanding here on TB about how basses work, and why we Luthiers build them the way we do. We do have real reasons for these things. I've been designing and building basses professionally for 23 years now, and I can tell you that they are not just a slab of wood with pickups.