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I'll Never Play for Free Again
- Thread starter tapehead
- Start date
Thats totally fine. But, unless it's a "open mic thing" my expectations, time, effort and talent require a bit more in the way of consideration.
scottbass
Bass lines like a big, funky giant
In case some of you haven't seen this scam before...well, consider yourselves forwarned.
I have a problem with freebie gigs ethically. It makes life harder for working musicians. I know people who feed their kids with money they make at shows. I could care less if you love playing and unconcerned about getting paid. By not demanding at least a nominal fee, you are taking food off the table for working musicians. If that doesn't bother you, then ok. It bothers the piss outta me though. I've done a live audition before. Showed up at the club before they opened and ran through four songs. That's all they need anyway to know that you are competent. Being asked to play a freebie as an "audition" is BS. I've done "exposure gigs" where another act was getting paid. I'm personally ok with that. I've also occasionally sat in with a friend for an entire night for kicks. Not a usual thing, and they will usually toss at least $50 or $60 out of curtesy when I do that, but I don't expect it. Plus then the people that I am sitting in with are getting paid. My real beef is with getting people acclimated to them getting musicians to play for free, not me occasionally going home with little to no pay.
Charity gigs are of course an exception.
All of this is my outlook on the subject. Yours may differ.
edit: Open mics are a whole different thing as long as there is a host who is getting paid to keep things moving along and fill in if the crowd gets shy. Can't think of an open mic I've ever seen with no host so open mic things have never bothered me.
Charity gigs are of course an exception.
All of this is my outlook on the subject. Yours may differ.
edit: Open mics are a whole different thing as long as there is a host who is getting paid to keep things moving along and fill in if the crowd gets shy. Can't think of an open mic I've ever seen with no host so open mic things have never bothered me.
That has worked well for us too. If you are playing for free it is your choice, and not that you have no other option.
I think the more important issue would seem , How can we as musicians change our local music scene so that we get paid? I remember a time in Florida when cover bands would make a minimum of $1000 a night. This has changed Drastically to the point of $100 per man being considered the norm. Economic factors have definitely affected the music scene in all sectors of the country i believe. Bars do not charge a cover down here any longer This to me is a huge part of the problem we are discussing. Conversely they jack the prices up on drinks while the band is playing and have the audacity to dictate to you to bring a "following". but guess what, you will not make any more money if you bring 100 people or 25 people. Only a select few bars I play at have offered us "Bonuses" for making the Bar money. Casual hobbyists have a right to play for sure, and if you do not care about getting paid, great for you. But I am afraid that it does have a huge affect and de-values musicians who rely on gigging for a living(not the easiest thing to do) and puts the emphasis on the money instead of the band which is performing. Someone come up with a plan to stop all this madness or let me know if any one of you have figured out solutions to this.
I've noticed that threads about this topic are becoming more common...and that's bad. When money is changing hands (like people paying for drinks in a bar) and you're playing for free, a light bulb should go on in your head. You should be able to figure out that you're getting screwed. After all is said and done, if you're generating sales for the venue you should be getting paid. Do you think the staff works for free? Playing for free is a bad idea and every time I read one of these threads, it becomes more apparent that there are just too many people who haven't figured it out yet. I am not a full-time player, but I consider my music to be a part-time job. The money MEANS something to me and I don't like getting offered peanuts to play because there are bands who WILL play for peanuts...or less.
My question is to the hobbyists in the discussion. Does your hobby include the time and effort involved to draw a crowd? Are you working 100% to play a night of music that people want to hear? If you did work that hard I'd bet your attitude would be different.
I think we professionals NEED to make the difference between a pro band and a group of hobbyists known to club owners. Personally, I bring years of hard work promoting my own bands, working on my craft, and delivering a night of music worth spending money on. Once we remember that nobody owes us anything and we need to take some responsibility for what we do the situation will turnaround. I've played with too many people in NYC who felt that all they needed to do was play and that was all, this attitude of course led to gigs being canceled after a couple of months due to lack of interest. Write some interesting arrangements of some favorite songs or anything that highlights the band's capabilities and interests the audience. Start a mailing list, make a damn effort. If you put on a quality show people will come back when you play.
Remember folks, QUALITY is what we as professionals have to offer. If we lose sight of that, we'll be sitting outside the clubs cursing the hobbyists for "stealing" our gigs. As far as "audition" nights go, they SUCK!
I think we professionals NEED to make the difference between a pro band and a group of hobbyists known to club owners. Personally, I bring years of hard work promoting my own bands, working on my craft, and delivering a night of music worth spending money on. Once we remember that nobody owes us anything and we need to take some responsibility for what we do the situation will turnaround. I've played with too many people in NYC who felt that all they needed to do was play and that was all, this attitude of course led to gigs being canceled after a couple of months due to lack of interest. Write some interesting arrangements of some favorite songs or anything that highlights the band's capabilities and interests the audience. Start a mailing list, make a damn effort. If you put on a quality show people will come back when you play.
Remember folks, QUALITY is what we as professionals have to offer. If we lose sight of that, we'll be sitting outside the clubs cursing the hobbyists for "stealing" our gigs. As far as "audition" nights go, they SUCK!
Thats totally fine. But, unless it's a "open mic thing" my expectations, time, effort and talent require a bit more in the way of consideration.
not really a bar can always find another band bottom line.
on second thought...
from this thread
I'm starting to think I need to start a cover band lol.
Audition nights... Lord, I'm just too old for that...
Then again, I've more or less given up on getting decent money out of playing music; I'd rather play original tunes and get paid *nothing* than bad classics and get paid poverty bux...
And yes, to those of you who are in good bands playing casuals, hat's off to you - but remember, you are the exception, not the rule.
Then again, I've more or less given up on getting decent money out of playing music; I'd rather play original tunes and get paid *nothing* than bad classics and get paid poverty bux...
And yes, to those of you who are in good bands playing casuals, hat's off to you - but remember, you are the exception, not the rule.
- Apr 1, 2000
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Professionalism and quality are (apparently) becoming less important to a lot of players/bands. How many times have you seen threads about people "noodling" between songs or playing so loud the sound tech has to pull them from the mix or getting so drunk they forget the songs? How many times have you heard about too much dead time between songs or ignoring simple requests from bar staff or bar owners? Stuff like this should never become an issue because it should NEVER HAPPEN but you see a dozen threads a week about stuff like this. There's a reason we have a hard time making ends meet. Unprofessional behavior by some gives all of us a bad name and it seems to be more common as time goes by.
Honestly, I don't think so. How many hobbyists do you know who play casuals? Original bands are another animal altogether, but even then a lot of what I said applies. Most of my experiences come from original bands, only in the past ten years have I gotten into the jazz/casual scene.
With karaoke and "Guitar Hero" even the hobbyists need to look out. Every musician who gigs, hobbyist and working, should be thinking about how they can improve their game.
+1 we did that a bunch of times. It's a great way to get your foot in the door. And if you can draw a good crowd, then you will get paid accordingly.
If I'm the leader on a gig, that doesn't happen. If I'm close enough to the leader I'll make a point of having anyone who behaves in that way replaced. I don't go for foolishness on a gig, the fun starts after the song is counted off not before.
I "work" 60-70 hours a week in IT as to which I only get paid for 40 of it. Why? because I enjoy it.
I promote the **** out of my Hobby, I print flyers, print shirts, cds, stickers, host our own websever from my house with my own money and time. we always have the same people at our shows plus a few more each time (believe we brought 60 people to a bar last week.. not bad by my standards).
what exactly is the difference between hobby and so called "pro" anyway?
I've spend 1-3 hours each day for 15 years playing my bass and another 12 on the weekends practicing with a band of my friends I've been in since childhood.
I play 100% to anything thing it is I do, even taking a crap I give it 100% you'll find no dingle berries here.
I think the "pros" need to get there heads out of their butts (unless you support yourself 100% with playing I understand that) but if your going to complain about a hundred bucks or a few burgers you really need to get over yourselves. I don't hear you complaining about pete wentz stealing the gigs that pounding down your door to play (heh, so much for talent and commitment)
I play to have fun, I play the soundtrack to others having fun, I get requested back because my head isn't up my ass.
I meet too many band, especially metal bands who forget what music is for.
Just because it's a hobby, doesn't mean you shouldn't charge similar rates to proffesionals.
I'm a professional musician, and NEED to get paid to eat!
I like working on old cars as a hobby, professional mechanics would be up in arms if I started doing work for other people for free.
I'm all for playing a friends house party etc, for free, because you can sell some cds and get more people along to your gigs.
DO NOT play gigs for free!
(Charity is different)
You will destroy the music industry for EVERYONE!!!
Last year a regular gig of mine was undercut by a new band. My drummer and I considered returning the favour and playing the gig for free, 'cos we could afford to...
We didn't because as much as we were not happy with the other band, we didn't want to get a reputation and wreck other peoples gigs...
Sorry for going on about this, but as people have said in this thread, these are tricky financial times.
I like my house, and I would like to be able to continue paying the mortgage.
I'm a professional musician, and NEED to get paid to eat!
I like working on old cars as a hobby, professional mechanics would be up in arms if I started doing work for other people for free.
I'm all for playing a friends house party etc, for free, because you can sell some cds and get more people along to your gigs.
DO NOT play gigs for free!
(Charity is different)
You will destroy the music industry for EVERYONE!!!
Last year a regular gig of mine was undercut by a new band. My drummer and I considered returning the favour and playing the gig for free, 'cos we could afford to...
We didn't because as much as we were not happy with the other band, we didn't want to get a reputation and wreck other peoples gigs...
Sorry for going on about this, but as people have said in this thread, these are tricky financial times.
I like my house, and I would like to be able to continue paying the mortgage.
