I'll Never Play for Free Again

[txbasschik]

Dont ever volunteer to coach a team sport, because lots of other guys rely on that as a career. Dont ever mow your neighbors lawn as a favor, because the landscaping company relies on that. Dont help your buddy install a car stereo, because the car audio shop has to pay their mortgages. Help out when someones computer crashes? No way, bring it to a tech who will charge you full price.

Apply the logic equally to areas that dont hit so close to home and you'll see the folly. Or not.

I tutor for several HS subjects. I am friends with many other tutors. A few of them rely heavily on this extra income. I would be appalled if any of them ever chastised of similarly criticized someone who was offering a student free help.

The bottom line is people like a bargain, but they pay for quality when they see the need. If the club gets free or bargain bands, and the club still fills up and customers like it and pay, then they clearly dont value the increased abilities & professionalism (and apparantly ego) as much as said pro's do. In essence, you are being told you arent worth the extra cost by the market.

IF, however, the club owners see a decline in buis due to lousy (free) help, which over time I'd wager is true as well depending upon the venue, then THEY will see the value of hiring a pro.

Its about money for the clubs, so the market decides in the end.

I read 4 or 5 pages of this thread and was frankly pretty disappointed to read much of what I did.

I think SMASH nailed it 10 or so pages ago.

Thing is, there is a difference, for me, between volunteering or helping a neighbor, and someone else making money off me.

I play benefits. We play benefits for local people, in my community, whose need is tangible, and when they are helped, the result is also tangible. For instance, we played a benefit for a bassist friend, so that he could get a new prosthetic leg (he lost his to diabetes). And for the family of a murdered fan. And for a local biker who died in an accident, so his wife could cover burial expenses.

I play friends' parties as a favor, so long as the band supports it. We do this sort of thing for one another a lot. I also go play with hobbyist friends, when their bassist can't show up for their house jams. Its fun.

And I feed my neighbor's cats for free when she's on vacation.

But when I play a bar, they are making money from me, and they should pay me, just as they pay the waitress and the barkeep. Because playing a bar gig or a party-for-hire isn't doing someone a favor. It is business. If they don't like us, they can hire someone else, and pay *them*.

Cherie

 

[KeithPas]

Could you get away with mixing your originals in with covers that compliment them? Or perhaps playing the originals in little three-song blocks, then three covers, etc? That's what a lot of bands here do, and it works very well. When you are trying to write, but you need to get out and play and cover a three-set night, it is ideal to mix the two.

If you are in a heavy-duty covers scene, try placing an original after a cover or two that goes well with it, or stick it in between two covers. I find that "covers" audiences will swallow the originals easier this way. Pretty soon, you will notice them singing along on originals they like, just as they do the covers! I've seen it happen before my very eyes, with a song I wrote. Best thing ever!!!

Cherie

I play in both an original band and a cover band. Club owners are not listening that closely to what we are playing as long as it is appropriate for the venue. I also will play a few originals in my cover band, they actually go over pretty good.

 

[Skarekrough]

If there was no money to be made in music, would you still do it?

I'd still make music. But I certainly wouldn't own a PA, a bass amp over 100 watts, a guitar tube amp over 7 watts or have a rehearsal space. I probably wouldn't own an SUV that I can haul all the gear in, a hand truck, a few pairs of work gloves and a slew of other odds and ends.

I'm beginning to think we need to organize musicians unions again precisely because of all of the scams bar owners are using on bands.

Bands are half the problem. The other half are bars that are either given the option to have a band play for free or levy that as an option.

As "playing in a band" has become more accessible by sheer numbers the availability of bands that suck will go up. If these bands can't get paid to play they'll dangle the carrot out there and who are the bar owners to say no to a free gig? And who are they to not try and get that same deal as often as possible?

The problem exists when the band sucks and they don't bring people in and a market is saturated with suck bands that will play for free.

All of the full timers I know aren't living off of the gigs that most hobbyists take. They're making their living off of the more upscale gigs like corporate functions, weddings, etc, where the expectations of quality are high and the pay is commensurate with that. They aren't playing $400 bar gigs as their main source of income.

Exactly. This is all almost completely about the "Weekend Warriors."

 

[bearfoot]

The problem exists when the band sucks and they don't bring people in and a market is saturated with suck bands that will play for free.

"Suck bands" (cue Beavis)

But speaking to that - maybe there is an underlying problem, on a societal scale, of overpraising talent. Of course you never want to piss on someone's aspirations, but nor does that mean that every young person with a guitar who's cobbled a few songs together is the next (insert music hero) -
It's a weird, weird thing. There's a lot going into the whole picture of why it is that people who essentially haven't put the time in, insist on taking the stage. False praise, attention seeking. Or just honest dabbling, you'll see that at open mics. Maybe the idea of "the Stage" ought to be, while not revered, respected more. It's not the place to be learning how to sing and play guitar, unless you've really got something new to say with it.

 

[tranceFusion]

It's a weird, weird thing. There's a lot going into the whole picture of why it is that people who essentially haven't put the time in, insist on taking the stage. False praise, attention seeking. Or just honest dabbling, you'll see that at open mics. Maybe the idea of "the Stage" ought to be, while not revered, respected more. It's not the place to be learning how to sing and play guitar, unless you've really got something new to say with it.

There are certain experiences gained from gigging that are only gained by playing a gig.

Playing a show that sucks because you flat out suck or because you were nervous and couldn't hear your band members still results in you playing a show that sucks.

The problem exists when the band sucks and they don't bring people in and a market is saturated with suck bands that will play for free.

I don't understand how suck bands that aren't willing to play for free fixes anything. You would rather people not be able to differentiate between a good player and a suck band by the price? I know up front if I am not paying for something, it is going to suck. If I paid a premium price and got something sucky, I would be absolutely pissed.

 

[ChrisB2]

"The Stage" is for anyone and everyone who can get on it, meaning if a particular stage is available to you, it is yours for the taking. That doesn't mean everyone can get on the same stage as Elton John, or that he would want to get on some stages. I have sat through plenty of sickening karaoke performed on a stage that allowed it to happen. The person singing didn't do anything wrong except show everyone how poor a singer they are, but that's on them.

I'm not that good but I'll be dad-burned if I'm going to sit at home playing along with youtube for the rest of my life because you want me to respect "The Stage" LOL. I have played for free when I had to, but I prefer being paid, as anyone would. But, I don't think Sir Elton is losing any gigs because I'm not demanding his level of compensation...

Like others have said, if you're good and in demand, you will get your reward. It's no different than any other business model. If you're not that good, or there's not that much demand for you, then you will have to compete with those like you and you may not get the compensation you want. Tough noogies, I don't get everything I want either.

 

[maevinj]

"The Stage" is for anyone and everyone who can get on it, meaning if a particular stage is available to you, it is yours for the taking. That doesn't mean everyone can get on the same stage as Elton John, or that he would want to get on some stages. I have sat through plenty of sickening karaoke performed on a stage that allowed it to happen. The person singing didn't do anything wrong except show everyone how poor a singer they are, but that's on them.

I'm not that good but I'll be dad-burned if I'm going to sit at home playing along with youtube for the rest of my life because you want me to respect "The Stage" LOL. I have played for free when I had to, but I prefer being paid, as anyone would. But, I don't think Sir Elton is losing any gigs because I'm not demanding his level of compensation...

Like others have said, if you're good and in demand, you will get your reward. It's no different than any other business model. If you're not that good, or there's not that much demand for you, then you will have to compete with those like you and you may not get the compensation you want. Tough noogies, I don't get everything I want either.

+1

 

[Crockettnj]

...
Like others have said, if you're good and in demand, you will get your reward. It's no different than any other business model. If you're not that good, or there's not that much demand for you, then you will have to compete with those like you and you may not get the compensation you want. Tough noogies, I don't get everything I want either.

+1

 

[txbasschik]

I play in both an original band and a cover band. Club owners are not listening that closely to what we are playing as long as it is appropriate for the venue. I also will play a few originals in my cover band, they actually go over pretty good.

Yeah, its a good strategy. We don't do that in my current band...we play the originals in one block. I prefer mixing them in, but, you know, different bands, different means. However, the venues here tend to like it when you do originals, so you don't *have* to slip 'em in like some bands have to do. That's pretty nice.

Cherie

 

[lonote]

Our stage show is about 60-70% originals/30-40% covers. Our new CD is all originals (16 songs) as was our 2 year-old EP (5 songs). We mix the originals and covers throughout the show; the originals get at least as good a response as the covers. As far as bar owners are concerned, the only music they hear is the ringing of the cash registers (which is as it should be). We work with the bar owners to promote our shows and they KNOW we will do our best to bring out a crowd. We use our myspace and we also have an e-mail monthly newsletter and we post on various and sundry blues and music discussion boards.

There is a big bonus to recording all original CD's: you don't have to pay automatic royalties. We invested those savings into an upgraded graphics package and used a reputable designer. We solicited input from well-known people in the blues community (both nation-wide and local/regional) so that we have gotten some good press for our upcoming CD release (it is at the duplicating company now). It all works hand-in-hand. It isn't easy to tie all this together but the key is working hard AND working smart.

I guess what I'm driving at is that you get what you pay for. While we are primarily weekenders, we put on a professional stage show and we offer a professional CD. Nothing worth having is free.

 

[SMASH]

Something I'm curious about.

Are so many posters here full-time pro players ergo have nothing better to do during the day? Surely people of such high morals as to complain of those who play for free wouldn't rip their day job off by wasting time online. Maybe you've taken the day off to file taxes early on all the cash gigs?



Rhetorical post. Methinks thou'd dost out yourself by protesting too much.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Are so many posters here full-time pro players ergo have nothing better to do during the day?

Good point, but many of us have jobs where we are on-line all day and come to TalkBass for comic relief.

 

[lonote]

Good point, but many of us have jobs where we are on-line all day and come to TalkBass for comic relief.

Exactly.

 

[txbasschik]

Nothing worth having is free.

Ayup.

Cherie

 

[bass dan]

wow this has gotten really heated. this is classic stuff. i work a full time job and play on average 8 times a month. i dont play for free, except for charity events or to support open mic nights. the reality is if you are willing to play for free you probably are not real popular with the local musicians and dont care to be.

i do not consider myself a pro musician. i spend lots of time and money trying to get it right. for that i think you need to ask to be compensated, not to mention the venue is making money by selling drinks while people are enjoying the music.

it does not bother me to bad when bands do play for free because i know they wont be around long. or they will continue to play the same crappy free gig for a very long time.

i believe there is a respect for local musicians when you do try and get paid what that venue pays. if thats free pizza and beer, than so be it. i live in a fairly small community, so just saying F##K the local guys and horning them out of gigs around here has never crossed my mind.

if you want to play for free do it in the park, open mic night, church, but dont do it at venues that pay musicians. unless you have no plans on ever doing anything but playing for free. just my 2 cents.