I'm glad some people find playing free gigs and shows satisfying. I know that for many of us, it is in fact a hobby, but, Isn't a pretty expensive one? I know a lot of people that have mountains of great gear and love to play, but it seems like a lot of local gigs where I live are the pay to play type thing. My band singed up for this "exposure" show. We're given 100 tickets to sell at 12 dollars each, selling thirty are required to play. I totally think its a scam. There are prizes for the three best bands, but we're still not getting any sort of flat pay. Luckily, a back line is provided, but a lot of gigs I've done include us hauling all our gear out to some dingy place, playing a thirty minute set and heading back home with out any sort of rienbursement. Its not like most venues can't a hundred bucks or so to pay a decent band.
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I'll Never Play for Free Again
- Thread starter tapehead
- Start date
Compared to some hobbies (i.e. running, hiking, writing) music is pretty expensive. Compared to others (i.e. boating, golf, photography) it isn't.
I agree totally, but when you put in hours and hours of practice time in someones basement. I just feel that you should get some form of pay. Even food is alright in some cases. I'm just tired of going out of my way to get all my stuff to a venue and have to keep selling thier tickets and promoting my show. I dont wanna sound rude, but whats exatcly in it for me? Sure music is asthetic, but if we're pulling people through the door, shouldn't we maybe get some sort of compensation?
An "exposure", pay-to-play, B.O.B. gig? OMG, y'all got saddled with the worst three types of gigs to play. OUCH!!!
A very small venue ought to be able to pay you at least $75-$100 bucks and give you some comps. A medium-sized place ought to be able to pay in the neighborhood of $200. *At the very least.* And let you pass the tip jar, too.
Anything less, you're either doing charity or being robbed. In the case of your recent gig, you got robbed.
I wonder if this kind of thing varies regionally, or by genre? I know that here, it can vary according to what part of town you are in.
Cherie
What in the phrase "when you play for free, you devalue your art" don't people understand.
When you play for free that not only means you have put no value on your music, but also every musician that comes after you. NO PAY NO PLAY. Would you spend a year on a sculpture just to give it away for "exposure"? I would not.
When you play for free that not only means you have put no value on your music, but also every musician that comes after you. NO PAY NO PLAY. Would you spend a year on a sculpture just to give it away for "exposure"? I would not.
Yep. Get ready for a barrage of " It's only worth what someone will pay for it." Here it comes. Brace yourself.
They get away with it because many young bands are so desperate to play out in front of a crowd that they accept these terms willingly.
A nephew of mine went through this phase a few years ago. Shortly after he formed a band and wrote some originals, they played a "battle of the bands" which required them to sell a minimum number of tickets. They were so excited to be able to play out in front of a crowd, performing their own music. They sold tons of tickets to all their friends and lo & behold, they were invited back to play again... As long as they sold more tickets. This went on for a few gigs until their friends got tired of forking over money to see them just play 4 or 5 numbers and the band started to get resentful that they weren't getting any cut of the door and attempted to negotiate that with the venue. The club refused (pretty much laughed in their faces) and the band stopped playing there, but the place is still holding these events and evidently there's no shortage of other bands willing to play into their scam. To add insult to injury my nephew's band went into the studio and recorded a few of their originals and put together a promo pack and tried to get into the paying club circut, but no one was interested because they weren't playing stuff that catered to the patrons of those clubs. Eventually the band broke up due to infighting, mostly about whether to go back to playing for free.
Rhetorical question.
Hardly. By your own standards, if you can't get paid don't take the gig. There are plenty of bands that can't get paid.
I played in a hardcore band all though high school and our only regular outlet were these all ages shows on Sunday afternoons. There was absolutely no money in it. The clubs let us put on the shows because it was Sunday afternoon, what else were they going to do? It was all ages, so no bar, only soft drinks. $5 at the door, usually 10-12 bands playing 20-30 minutes each. The club probably made a few bucks on after they paid whoever worked the afternoon. Should we have turned these gigs down if they couldn't guarantee us money? Cover our expenses?
Your view on this whole issue is very narrow. You can only see it from a pro or semi-pro position. There are a lot of people who will never play anything where they can make money, never tour or headline, never draw an audience of strangers based on the work they've put in. Do these people not have a place on a stage somewhere? Having rules to run your own hobby/career by is fine, but trying to force your rules onto others is lame.
And I still stand by my earlier statement that if you're losing gigs to bands that don't/can't charge, your band needs work.
It's a rhetorical question because the answer is obvious.
From Wikipedia:
A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for its persuasive effect without the expectation of a reply (ex: "Why me, Lord?")[1] Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to reflect on what the implied answer to the question must be. When a speaker states, "How much longer must our people endure this injustice?" or "How many times do I have to tell you to stop walking into the house with mud on your shoes?"; no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something.
I see no problem with this as long as everyone's fine with this arrangement. A club called "Krome" (used to be known as Club Bene) on Rt. 35 in Sayreville used to do the same thing. Pretty much the only people who played (and attended) were high schoolers, but it provided a venue for young bands to get out and play on a stage in front of an audience. The club was closed down eventually after a shooting took place in front of the place .
dude......please........very few benefit from the musicians union,except the union that is......and thats coming from a guy who's walked a picket line or 3........id be the first to say that club owners dont generally treat bands,staff ,suppliers,customers or anyone else very well.......
but if you dont feel right about having to bring all your friends to every gig,or sell tickets,play for free,pay to play ,play for food or whatever dont do the gig.....to do it and cry about it after the fact is nuts.......i have not read anywhere lately where bands are being forced to play at gunpoint
All of the full timers I know aren't living off of the gigs that most hobbyists take. They're making their living off of the more upscale gigs like corporate functions, weddings, etc, where the expectations of quality are high and the pay is commensurate with that. They aren't playing $400 bar gigs as their main source of income.
And lets be honest. If a band can't find a way to provide a value added service to a venue to make better pay then they have no business pissing and moaning when someone else does a comparable job for less money.
And lets be honest. If a band can't find a way to provide a value added service to a venue to make better pay then they have no business pissing and moaning when someone else does a comparable job for less money.
I agree in that musicians need to stay adaptable. It's pretty much common knowledge that bars/clubs can be a sketchy endeavor, often oversaturated with green acts eager to cut their teeth. So, as you say, the Pros avoid that scene. There seems to be enough niches for everyone, and they change over time. The city I'm in used to have dozens of clubs downtown, every jazz cat you can think of played there ages ago. Now it is thin prospects.
It's almost like the fish/pond analogies. You don't put a big koi in a 10 gallon aquarium. But, a band might put itself in those situations - getting $100 for a 5 piece band, etc. etc.
So, there's no need to be angry with a small fish for playing in its pond, or suspicious of a big fish. But it is good to continue to tell musicians to value what they do.
Hell, even a busker is making lunch money.
