I love to play and I almost always have fun when I am gigging, I just have MORE fun when I get money. 
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I'll Never Play for Free Again
- Thread starter tapehead
- Start date
I agree.
Sometimes it means turning down gigs.
Bands starting out seem to be victim to the "free night" more often than not. While it can be tough to get your foot in the door I have found that if you set the precedent it makes things easier in the long run.
Getting your foot in the door isn't easy. But once you manage to open up one place then others are going to start paying attention. Once you can establish the value of your band then others will fall in line.
I think it's also important for those that set up multi-band nights to always make sure that every band walks away with something in their pocket other then their hands.
I've played in alot of bands over the years. Some of them I can barely remember the names of the other members. But I can definitely tell you which ones I got paid in.
OK, let's try this. I know someone else has already touched on this, but I'm gonna do it again: Playing music is an endeavor that can be considered 'employment' and is pretty much universally enjoyed by it's practitioners. Trouble is, the general public knows this.
Those of you who really love your day jobs might not realize how fortunate you are, but most folks do not like their day jobs. Given a choice, they would not go to work. And spare me the lecture about 'you can be whatever you want, get an education, reach for the stars' etc....just save your breath. Seriously.
Music is different.
As long as the bills are paid, many musicians(with day jobs they hate) can be persuaded to work free/cheap just for the heck of it. It's one of a few, precious things that is fun AND pays money, sometimes good money, if you demand it. But if you don't demand it, you won't get it. And sometimes you won't get it anyway. But it's worth a try, isn't it? No? Then stay home.
Those of you who really love your day jobs might not realize how fortunate you are, but most folks do not like their day jobs. Given a choice, they would not go to work. And spare me the lecture about 'you can be whatever you want, get an education, reach for the stars' etc....just save your breath. Seriously.
Music is different.
As long as the bills are paid, many musicians(with day jobs they hate) can be persuaded to work free/cheap just for the heck of it. It's one of a few, precious things that is fun AND pays money, sometimes good money, if you demand it. But if you don't demand it, you won't get it. And sometimes you won't get it anyway. But it's worth a try, isn't it? No? Then stay home.
Your logic doesn't hold. If trying to get paid isn't "worth a try" that doesn't mean they should stay home. It means they should play for free, or for very little compensation.
Coming from another angle, imagine if only polished, professional bands that were well paid got hired in a given city. That would push the less polished, less professional and less mainstream bands to the side. Eventually, you end up with a scenario like what has happened in the French Quarter of New Orleans. Everyone sounds the same, plays the same songs, no risks are taken. I'm sure they're very well paid, and they bring customers in the door. But the music that defines New Orleans has been pushed out of the Quarter, into other neighborhoods. The music in those places is still alive and experimental and evolving, though the artists make significantly less money, if any, when starting out. Given the choice between a well paid gig where a club owner has a lot of say over what you play (as he should, given what he's paying you) and a low paying gig with complete artistic freedom, every musician I respect is going to take the low paying gig every time. Even if it means waiting tables at lunchtime or holding down a 9-5. That's just the way I view art and music. It is not a commodity to be whored out.
Your view may differ.
scottbass
Bass lines like a big, funky giant
Yeah, mine is different.
(1) I know what you were trying to say with the French Quarter example, but that's really on a different plane of existence due to the tourism. All those musicians at Disney World keep singing "It's a Small World, After All" day after day after day, but it's a new audience every day. I would put the French Quarter musicians in that same boat - playing "Saints" every day to new people.
(2) I resent being called a whore because I choose to earn money from music and wish to protect my ability to do so. To quote my mother: "Shame on you, beggar!"
(but I'll still talk nice to you)One of my previous bands was having a discussion about how often to play and what venues to play. I told the others I want to play Friday and Saturday of every weekend and I won't pass up a gig at a lower-level venue in order to sit home and wait for the less-frequent better-venue gigs. The lead singer said: "Well, that's because you're a gig whore."
Those were the last words that singer spoke as a member of our band <<< TRUE.
We freed him/her to go pursue his/her "art" in a more meaningful fashion. <<<SARCASM.
Don't misinterpret: I understand that most people don't want to play every weekend. That's why I play in several bands - in order to play as much as I want. But to call me a "whore" because I want to play as often as possible? Should I have called that singer a "poser" or a "wannabe" or an "amateur" because he/she didn't want to perform whenever possible?
Yeah, mine is different.
(1) I know what you were trying to say with the French Quarter example, but that's really on a different plane of existence due to the tourism. All those musicians at Disney World keep singing "It's a Small World, After All" day after day after day, but it's a new audience every day. I would put the French Quarter musicians in that same boat - playing "Saints" every day to new people.
(2) I resent being called a whore because I choose to earn money from music and wish to protect my ability to do so. To quote my mother: "Shame on you, beggar!"
One of my previous bands was having a discussion about how often to play and what venues to play. I told the others I want to play Friday and Saturday of every weekend and I won't pass up a gig at a lower-level venue in order to sit home and wait for the less-frequent better-venue gigs. The lead singer said: "Well, that's because you're a gig whore."
Those were the last words that singer spoke as a member of our band <<< TRUE.
We freed him/her to go pursue his/her "art" in a more meaningful fashion. <<<SARCASM.
I definitely think my view on the matter is skewed from the cities I've lived in. When I was in Charleston, SC I played regularly and got paid fairly well for it (not enough to live off of, but its a small city). When I was in New Orleans and now in Los Angeles, I see a huge divide between bands that play to get paid and those that play to play, whether they get paid or not. I certainly don't mean to demean your decisions, but people who say those who don't play for the most money they can get should stay home should realize there is another way of looking at things.
However, don't think that whatever local scene you play on is beyond the reach of being homogenized by the almighty dollar. Once money is involved, variety and creativity fall by the wayside. Just take a spin through your local radio options and see how varied those playlists are. The same could very easily happen to the live music scene if the club owners had their way.
Your logic doesn't hold, as applied to my argument. I'm talking about club cover gigs, where there are lots of people, a cover charge, no risk, etc. Original/experimental? Sure, I'm all over it. Coffee house, tiny Jazz club, OK fine-I'll do that stuff for tips or whatever too. Fun.
My argument, and I think most of us are with me here, is focused on 'club' work, where money clearly is being/has always been made. In these situations I demand a slice, because those folks would not be there if I weren't there. And in this case, it IS a commodity. Music as art is a whole different environment, which I love as much as you do.
I have a lot of problems with this.
First, how many bands are playing cover gigs for free? Are these people masochists?
Second, and more importantly, every time you book a cover gig and play what the club owner tells you to you're taking a stage away from an original band. You're making it that much more difficult for new music to be heard. You want to make a living as a musician? Fine. Write something people want to hear. Otherwise, get out of the way and make room for someone who will. Or, as you put it, stay home.
no they are not.......if someone is willing to pay to hear your originals they will.i would say take your own advice and stay home and write originals that people want to pay to hear
that stage does not belong to you.you are simply hired,or not hired to perform on it......the club owner can have a bingo caller up there if he wants.....
as long as people will listen to cover bands those players have every right to play for whoever and for how much they feel like,even nothing......we may not like it but as long as we live in a free society thats how it is....just because you write something does not mean anyone else is obligated to book,listen to,pay for ,or even care that you wrote it.
if you want guaranteed access to a stage,buy a club.then you will be able to refuse to hire cover bands.....but the notion that a guy who wants to play for fun must step out of the way for you is ludicrous
it seems that this has become a bull session and i guess venting is necessary at times,but all the venting in the world does not change a thing......
i do find it odd that when it name acts like the stones roll into town for truckloads of money everyone seems fine with it.....supply and demand etc.....but when the same supply and demand logic affects them negatively everyones blaming the weekenders and pay/play crowd......
I agree with what you say. No one has a "right" to play shows, and artists will always have to compete with give-'em-what-they-want performers.
My point was that if you play music for the art of it, then bands that play covers are poisonous to your goals. Just like if you play music for money, bands that play for free are poisonous to your goals.
You stay home, I stay home, whatever. If I were being really honest, I'd want every other musician out there to stay home. Then I could play whenever I want and charge whatever I want. Never be reality though, will it?
..... Seriously? .....
Lots of bands play covers for free ... just do a search here on TB in threads of this type.
You want to make a living as a musician? Then you need to do whatever you have to in order to put food on the table, and that includes covers, teaching, studio work, writing, arranging, doubling on other instruments, etc .... whatever it takes. I'm guessing that you never pursued music as a career ...
I do play and record music for the 'art' of it. And I play covers for the money of it. And to have a good time in either case.
I don't know which planet you are from, but almost all of us play covers, almost all of the time. I WISH it was the case that decent money could be made sticking strictly to originals, but it doesn't work that way on Earth AFAIK.
im sensing a great deal of frustration about the state of affairs that musicians are in these days and i sympathize......but what is to be done......as long as playing to an audience appeals to people they will,original,cover,poetry,paid,
unpaid,whatever
i believe this to be the way it always was and always will be.....
I did, and I couldn't stand compromising my music to make ends meet. I didn't pick up a bass when I was 12 in the hopes of one day making it a career, but because I loved to play. A couple of years into the hustle of lining up every gig/studio date/lesson I could book I started to hate playing. It became a job. Now I play music for fun and have a 9-5 to pay the bills.
That doesn't mean you have to sell out your art for money. There a million things you can do to pay the bills without having to compromise your music. That's the choice I made, and I'm much happier for it.
You do know, don't you, beggar, that there is no WAY I'm going to let you have the last word.......
And I do still do original music, without compromise, and usually for about 50 bucks:
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And I do still do original music, without compromise, and usually for about 50 bucks:
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After reading about a million of these threads, I've come to the conclusion that everybody is going to do whatever they want to do. Some people are going to get annoyed and think they're going to change somebody else's outlook. Everybody thinks they're right and those who disagree with them are wrong.
Experience is the great educator and, often, the great humbler. Those who think they're going to make a ton of money are probably wrong...they'll learn. This has been very educational. There is a lot of wisdom and a lot of nonsense (IMO) written here. I'll do what works for me and, hopefully, others will find out what works for them and hop on board.
I'm happy doing what I do. I have had the opportunity to visit with and learn from people who were my heroes when I was a kid. 30 or 40 years ago, if somebody told me I'd get to meet some of these people, I would have thought they were crazy. I feel very fortunate to have been involved with music, on whatever level. I like the money, sure, but my fondest memories are of the artists/heroes I've had the chance to meet. I couldn't tell you how much I got paid for all those gigs but I can tell you that I did it for the love of the music; the money was secondary but it was/is still important.
Experience is the great educator and, often, the great humbler. Those who think they're going to make a ton of money are probably wrong...they'll learn. This has been very educational. There is a lot of wisdom and a lot of nonsense (IMO) written here. I'll do what works for me and, hopefully, others will find out what works for them and hop on board.
I'm happy doing what I do. I have had the opportunity to visit with and learn from people who were my heroes when I was a kid. 30 or 40 years ago, if somebody told me I'd get to meet some of these people, I would have thought they were crazy. I feel very fortunate to have been involved with music, on whatever level. I like the money, sure, but my fondest memories are of the artists/heroes I've had the chance to meet. I couldn't tell you how much I got paid for all those gigs but I can tell you that I did it for the love of the music; the money was secondary but it was/is still important.
You do know, don't you, beggar, that there is no WAY I'm going to let you have the last word.......
And I do still do original music, without compromise, and usually for about 50 bucks:
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I'll check out the link when I get home from my horrible, low-paying, soul-crushing 9-5.
For me, the perspective is different. It is work that I love, and which I don't want to ever stop doing.
My friend H is a home health nurse. That is a job that I am not cut out to do, nor do I have any desire to do. (Done it...sucked at it.) She loves it. She is passionate about it. She is excellent at it. She doesn't want to do anything else, except get her degree, so she can be better at it. She doesn't make a lot of money at it, but it isn't just her work. It is her passion.
Music is mine. I'm willing to do part-time jobs and sell stuff on eBay and do without a few things in order to supplement what I earn with my music and still pay the bills and do right by my kids. So...its my work. If I had to stop doing this work, you'd probably have to sedate me.
I have plenty of friends who hold your perspective, and that's cool. They mostly play with like-minded friends, in one another's homes. They sometimes take gigs. Most of them do get paid for those gigs. And I think that's great, because even though they are "doing it for fun" (I'm quoting one of those local buddies here), they do place a value on their time and on the entertainment they are providing.
I think your time and talent is valuable, too. I think you should receive some tangible compensation for your dedication to your passion.
Cherie
FWIW I don't see it as "work" for me either (well, with the exception of the setup/breakdown). There's no doubt that I play for the enjoyment of it (I certainly couldn't make a living at it), and it's definately more fun to play out in front of a crowd than in one of the band member's basement. I do more than my fair share of pro bono and "free will offering" gigs. Things like charities, block parties, youth retreats & church events, all of which I love participating in. I take somewhat of a different attitude when playing at a club however. Besides the obvious point that the club/bar/restaurant is using us to generate more income, the dynamics of dealing with and playing in such places are different... more "business like" which does make it seem more like work. All things being equal, I'd rather play my other venues.
- Ugly.
