I'll Never Play for Free Again

[Kael]

I wonder what kind of reaction I would get if I asked all you fifty-year-olds who are playing blues, Eagles and Santana covers, to stay home with the wifey and the minivan and not to "compromise" gigs for young bands with original material.

To be completely fair, the original "scene" is a slightly different critter. There is usually less money and since each artist is playing there own music, the possible overlap between the pros and the weekenders isn't the same.
That being said, try demanding to be paid. Seriously. It works more often than not. If you don't value yourself and your music, then neither will anyone else. I worked with a solo artist a year or two ago that had been stuck in the "I'm pushing my CD so I have to take free gigs" school of thought. I encouraged her to demand payment. She tried it and lo and behold, she got it.

PS: I'm not a 50 year old playing blues, Eagles and Santana either.

 

[Kael]

As I always say, even a jukebox gets paid.™

I'm not the kinda guy to sig a quote from someone else, but someone out to snag that.

 

[barbarbass]

That being said, try demanding to be paid.

PS: I'm not a 50 year old playing blues, Eagles and Santana either.

Fair enough. Never hurts to try.

 

[bass12]

Sure. But get paid. I won't work cheap/free anymore because doing so sets precedent. If musicians continue to work cheap/for free eventually the status quo will be to make that the norm. I'd rather not see that. Sure it's fun to play, but think about the long-term consequences.
At a club gig recently, an obviously well-heeled woman approached the leader, showered us with praise, then asked how much we'd charge for a private event at a certain estate. She was visibly stunned when we gave her a price of $1000.00. She said, "What? I thought it would be maybe a couple of hundred bucks. I thought you did this for fun. Never mind." See?
Having said all that, I'll do certain charity events free, but I'm mighty particular about which ones.
Club wants to see us for free as an 'audition?' We give 'em a DVD.

+1 Audition night? That's ridiculous. Hasn't this club owner ever heard of a demo tape? I remember when club owners would go and check bands out in other clubs to see whether they liked them or not. And yes, playing free does set a precedent. A lot of people these days seem incapable of comprehending the notion of musician as PROFESSIONAL. That means PAY ME. Most musicians who have been playing 20+ years have put just as much time into what they do as have most lawyers. It's truly insulting that so many expect to get free service from musicians. Do I love playing? Without a doubt. Do I love transporting gear, paying thousands of dollars for that gear, paying thousands of dollars for a musical education, paying for practice spaces and rehearsing with obnoxious MDs? No. I've paid my dues, now pay me!!!

 

[Michael Case]

1. no, I've been trying for my own benefit
2. absolutely

head up butt: you hold your self on a higher pedestal above other musicians which is wrong, I'm sire there are a million musicians out there that could wipe the floor with you despite your skill.
if you make a living at it great, good for you but you should not take it out on people who do it for the fun of it.

Well I wasn't, my original point was meant for those people who complain that people playing for free steal their paid gigs. I know from experience that most of the folks who complain like that really don't work hard enough to hold a paying gig. I don't find hobbyists a threat, I DO believe that professional musicians who put in the work separate themselves from hobbyists on shear quality of music. I love music and would play no matter what, I was young, played in original bands for the door and got ripped off. I also worked my tail off to draw people to those shows and my bands always moved up the ranks in the scene. After a few years of freelancing around NYC mostly in jazz gigs I noticed that a great number of "professionals" didn't work as had as they should to keep paid gigs. I also met many players who kept paid gigs in places for 15+ years based on quality. So when I speak of separating the pro's from the hobbyists it's more a shot at the pro's.

I used to be one of the first guys to jump all over people who played for free, just look up a thread titled "the value of musicianship." It was that thread that got me thinking about all of the issues I mentioned concerning "professional" musicians and what I was doing. I'm spending my time now putting together a quality group that will earn and keep paying gigs (I hope), but at least I'm gonna try. I'm also doing some teaching (music) since I recently relocated and am building a new network.

Anyway, that's what I have to say.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I wonder what kind of reaction I would get if I asked all you fifty-year-olds who are playing blues, Eagles and Santana covers, to stay home with the wifey and the minivan and not to "compromise" gigs for young bands with original material.

Represent.

 

[lonote]

I wonder what kind of reaction I would get if I asked all you fifty-year-olds who are playing blues, Eagles and Santana covers, to stay home with the wifey and the minivan and not to "compromise" gigs for young bands with original material.

So you really think this is about musical genre and age, huh? Want to know the truth? People who are good enough to get paid do get paid and those who aren't don't. It used to be that the basement and garage were the places to hone their craft but now the "hobbyists" get the honor of playing for free or paying to play in dive bars that cater to cut rate bands and customers who are too drunk and/or lacking in discernment to know the difference. That's the reality of the situation. I have never seen anybody post that they were offered money but turned it down because they enjoyed the purity of their hobby so much that they didn't want to get paid.

 

[ksandvik]

Leave the free gigs and audition gigs for amateurs. The bar owners should get crappy quality with bands until they learn the hard way.

 

[Michael Case]

I wonder what kind of reaction I would get if I asked all you fifty-year-olds who are playing blues, Eagles and Santana covers, to stay home with the wifey and the minivan and not to "compromise" gigs for young bands with original material.

I'm not 50, I don't drive a minivan, and I don't play the blues, Eagles, and Santana covers. I also agree with Kael who said original music is a slightly different world. At the same time, EVERYBODY who gigs has the same responsibility, to put butts in the seats and make the cash register ring. Whether it's by promoting the hell out of your gig, or playing good music and putting on a good show ALL OF US need to remember that if we don't benefit the venues, the venues will dump us even if you play for free.

 

[coop]

Had a bar owner try this audition for free thing a couple of years ago. I told him that would be just fine, we were going to bring about 30 of our best friends and we would eat and drink for free that night to "audition" his club.

We didn't get the gig

 

[Michael Case]

Had a bar owner try this audition for free thing a couple of years ago. I told him that would be just fine, we were going to bring about 30 of our best friends and we would eat and drink for free that night to "audition" his club.

We didn't get the gig

I remember places in NYC that were always "auditioning" bands. It's not the worst thing in the world though, as long as a band actually gets hired for a decent wage. I think auditioning for a paid gig is fine why should a club or restaurant owner pay people good money without knowing whether or not the group will improve or kill business. You can't have an interview for a gig, so an audition is like an interview. I think the venue could at least pony up a few drinks or a meal for an auditioning band though.

 

[pbass6811]

Leave the free gigs and audition gigs for amateurs. The bar owners should get crappy quality with bands until they learn the hard way.

+1...I like that, pretty much straight to the point!

I get paid really good money because we are a really good band. We Play well, we promote, we bring in big crowds, we sound good, we play a good mix of covers AND originals, we interact, we have fun=we get paid! There have been a few clubs that wouldn't hire us because "we charge too much"...most of those clubs are gone now. a $1500/night band that makes the club $12k on a weekend should be held in higher regard than $300/night band that makes the club $2k/weekend(no offense to good bands that are struggling to make $300/night...my advice, go out and make friends with lot's of people who will come see you every time you play!).

Bottom line is this; if you wanna play for free, go ahead, we've all done it, just don't do it in places where pros make a living! Have a block party or a garage party and play til your hearts content. Leave the paying venues to the rest of us.

 

[hbarcat]

I certainly don't feel threatened by the mothmonstermans out there who are playing for free and who are ecstatic to get a bottle of beer and a handful of peanuts as a tip.

I'm a hobbyist musician in the sense that I support myself as a warehouse ape during the day. But I play in two bands in my free time and one of them is for fun and we don't make money because we don't care. Truthfully, this band is not very good and the only people we compete with are other bands which suck as bad as we do.

My other band is a serious cover band and I expect to make money every gig I play. In this area, for the skill level that we're at, my bandmates and I each make about $150 a night. This band doesn't even bother with LOSER venues who are looking to skimp on the entertainment. We have a nice demo CD and DVD, and adverts that describe what we do and what the venue can expect from us (we can put butts on barstools). We also have our gig prices clearly marked. If any club balks at those prices, then screw them. Our band gets as many gigs as we care to book (which is about once a week or so).

Our main concern is making sure that when we sell ourselves to the venues they can tell the difference between us and the less serious musicians who are giving it away for free. As long as we realize that it's our responsibility to present ourselves as being in a different category from them and we maintain a reputation as professionals then we have no problems.

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

I started playing clubs/bars when I was 18 (26 years ago) and there was no such thing as playing for free. After a 10 year hiatus I returned to playing in a band again. I was shocked when told that bars/clubs that used to pay decent coin now were paying with "tickets'' or the door. Granted we are playing originals (metal) with a few covers thrown in but after 2 years of this and a summer where we did get paid some very good money on some gigs I have told my band that I am not playing for free or the door or for tickets anymore. I want a guaranteed pay day. When I bring my full rig it is a rig with a value of $10,000. My basses are Rics so there is a few grand more. Our band brings a decent show and crowd with it. I have invested in a trailer for hauling our gear. Yes this is a hobby for me and it was my choice to sink money into gear/trailer etc but the bar is making money while we are playing. I want to make a little bit too.

I liked the analogy by the poster who wondered what licensed mechanics would think if the backyard/hobbyists started doing fixing vehicles for free and taking customers from the legit business.

Our band might not be a legit business but I think we provide enough entertainment to deserve getting paid.

Playing free at a backyard bbq or street party is one thing; playing free in a club where they are charging cover and for drinks is quite another IMO.

 

[David Jayne]

I'd like to remind the rather smug 'mothmonsterman' that his job might not be quite a secure as he thinks, what with all the extremely bright foreigners coming here to work in IT. For cheap.

 

[LilMissStrange]

That's BS man! Completely discourteous and inconsiderate! Not even a thanks for coming? Dont bother with that club again, and if you know any other musicians, pass the word on.

 

[KeithPas]

You'd think that would be obvious, wouldn't you? Every time I get involved in one of these threads, I'm just amazed at all the rationalizations people have for playing for free. The world is a funny place, that's all I can say.

I don't want to sound like I never play for free, I am just picky about when I will do it. Charity events are always cool by me and I will occasionally be up for doing a gig for exposure. I do not like audition gigs, I cannot tell you how many times I have done these type gigs, filled the place with paying customers, had sound techs, staff and customers tell us we rocked and never get a call back. I don;t really mind playing for free, I always mind getting played or taken for a fool.

 

[SMASH]

I hope ugly fat chicks will stop giving "it" away for free so that quality whores can earn a decent living.

I mean, if the fat chicks want to stay in the basement or give it away at a bar-b-q that's fine, but they should stay out of the high-end clubs where hot gym-going stunners in miniskrts are trying to earn a living in their chosen field.

But really, like *all* the other guys getting paid to play, I'm too busy paying taxes on all my music income and making sure all venues definitely pay the music licensing fees to worry about it.

Yay logic !

EDIT - I've never seen a juke box play too loud, alienate the crowd with cursing and tasteless jokes between songs, take very extensive breaks, arrive late, or fail to play what the paying customer really wanted to hear.

EDIT2 - Nickelback, Metallica, The Who, etc. all played for free or at a hefty loss quite a few times before becoming multi-millionaires. I suggest people worry more about their own professionalism than pointing the fingers at amateurs, regardless of what business you're in.

And any backyard mechanic can and will fix your car, and any of us might even go to one to get a ding touched-up, but would we take our family's minivan to get the brakes fixed there? But hey, don't let rational thinking ruin a good whinefest.

 

[Stumbo]

....look into cutting a demo CD. it could be a live set recording to hand out to potentials.

+100

You could even send CD's to various clubs around the area as promotional material.

 

[David Jayne]

I mean, if the fat chicks want to stay in the basement or give it away at a bar-b-q that's fine, but they should stay out of the high-end clubs where hot gym-going stunners in miniskrts are trying to earn a living in their chosen field.

+1, totally agree. But THAT will never happen, unfortunately. Hey, are you fat?