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Im officially a "No" tweeter guy

About 6 years ago i purchased a New Fender CS 64 Jazz Relic Closet Classic paid $2700.I love this Bass its by far the bass bass i have ever owned or played.When i purchased it my amp was a 90,s Yorkville 400B single 15 w/horn then later a Traynor Dyna Bass 800H/90,s Ampeg Cab single 15 w/horn .I rarely ever had a need to touch the tone controls set at flat are the tones i like.I play with both my pups wide open and the tone control at about half.About 4 months ago i purchased a Mark Bass Jeff Berlin bass amp "No Tweeter" i love the tones also set at flat on this amp the only difference is now i turn my tone control on my bass wide open.I really notice a different voice coming from my bass i have always loved her tones but now im hearing this unique sweet voice that adds so much charactor to my sound.Ive just recently bought a 76 Fender Precision same thing tone control wide open perfect tones to my ears.Every once in a while you here a P or J bass with that extra sweet unique voice im wondering if this is how players achieve this ?

Reading back this first post, it looks as if this thread is not so much about the tweeter, but more about the tone control.
Or am I reading this wrong?

And I refuse to embrace the even sillier idea that my tube amps are toneless and lo-fi, so there :p

Now, there there everybody...;)
 
Reading back this first post, it looks as if this thread is not so much about the tweeter, but more about the tone control.
Or am I reading this wrong?
It started out that way, yes. But all it takes is one person to get his nose out of joint because the OP doesn't share the same tastes, and then the avalanche of off-topic starts.
 
And I refuse to embrace the even sillier idea that my tube amps are toneless and lo-fi, so there :p

Ah, I never said that ALL tube-amps or old solid state amps are toneless at all - but you must admit that there are those who, as a matter of rhetoric, insist that ANYTHING that is old is great. I saw a thread a while back extolling the virtues of, of all things, Silvertone gear. Seriously? Sears? Just because it's old, it's great? When I was coming up in the '70s, it was universally recognized that that was just bad gear. Now, because it is old, it MUST have mojo and MUST be great. So very silly. I was heartened to see a thread about just how bad sounding old Kustom gear was (I owned some - lord how I know that!) - so there's hope!

But to circle back to the OP - if someone doesn't like tweeter in cabs, don't buy cabs with tweeters. Don't tell me that I'm not cool because I have them in my cabs - I have evolved the kit I have now in large part based on feedback from musicians I play with and listeners, who have consistently told me that my rig sounds *fantastic* (even when my playing isn't!). And the nice thing about tweeters - I can always tweak my bass EQ and suddenly, I sound like I'm running without horn/tweeter and even playing flats. So having tweets provides *options* for me. I like options.
 
Silvertone gear ain't bad. It was cheap, but it was made by Danelectro and it sounded pretty good. A guitarist buddy of mine used to use the amp that was built into the case for their guitars, and mic'ed up into the PA it sounded pretty massive. Admittedly, I was never a Kustom fan, but if someone else digs it, then it's good. I can think of worse being made currently, that's for sure.
 
Everybody who doesn't sound like me is closeminded and they suck, so there. :D

I think every automobile I've ever owned I paid less for than some people willingly give for a single channel strip off some old recording console, or happily pay for some 50-year old tube compressor or amplifier.

Must be because that stuff is "old and lo-fi", not near as good as the amplified computer chips of today. ;)
 
The diaphram is the driver. The horn is the...well...horn, that the driver is attached to. Most tweeters would sound pretty quiet and crappy without the horn.

Soft-domes and electrostats can sound absolutely beautiful, but most aren't loud enough or robust enough for MI use. Not cheap either. When it comes to musical instrument reproduction, cheap is important. :)
 
Your bass amd strings and amp and speakers all color your sound and make it sound the way you want.
If you get to play by having your cab mic'd when you play through a PA ( or use a speaker level DI, then you probably get as close to the tone you like out to the audience. If you are playing direct at all, I see two instances.. 1) Bass to DI to amp.. you hear your amp the way you want, but the FOH will sound way different. You might not like it at all. 2) Bass to amp with Direct out ... then speakers. The DI can get the tone of your amp, but no coloring from the speakers. In that case, it seems that having a hifi sounding full range cab with tweaters will be more like the PA you're going through.. and that by adjusting the tone of your amp/bass you will get a similar sound on stage and off stage. In this case a tweater will help by letting you know what youll sound like to the audience.. and if you want less treble.. do it with your amp..

If you always mic your cab, you're probably golden. If you go direct.. unless you have your DI box as your amp/cab modeler, then it seems that having a hifi sounding cab with QUALITY tweeters ( not common ) would be the best option for a consistent sound. It seems that many people use their speaker choice a very large part of their sound.. but many people will never hear what you have dialed in on stage unless you are mic'd. Sound reasonable? Not trying to kick hornets nests here.
 
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Sounds sort of reasonable, except having a full range bass cab is still no guarantee that it'll sound the same in the house and your amp, especially if it's a standard bass cab with a piezo. Now something like a fEarful or Audiokinesis...that's another story, but even they won't be exact sonic duplicates. However, they will be closer IMHO.
 
In guitar Amps, many of the Sears Silvertone & Montgomery Wards were Valco/Supro built.

They built amps for other vendors too.

Just one example of a No-Name Amp you've probably never heard of Vega V-70
Supro Circuit.

One of my all time favorite vintage amp demos!

Also note the highs come out just fine through a full range 15" without any need for a tweeter.



Leon picks up amps like this for next to nothing refurbishes them and as you can see has plenty to choose from.

He also custom builds various amps like this from scratch.
 
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Your bass amd strings and amp and speakers all color your sound and make it sound the way you want.
If you get to play by having your cab mic'd when you play through a PA ( or use a speaker level DI, then you probably get as close to the tone you like out to the audience. If you are playing direct at all, I see two instances.. 1) Bass to DI to amp.. you hear your amp the way you want, but the FOH will sound way different. You might not like it at all. 2) Bass to amp with Direct out ... then speakers. The DI can get the tone of your amp, but no coloring from the speakers. In that case, it seems that having a hifi sounding full range cab with tweaters will be more like the PA you're going through.. and that by adjusting the tone of your amp/bass you will get a similar sound on stage and off stage. In this case a tweater will help by letting you know what youll sound like to the audience.. and if you want less treble.. do it with your amp..

If you always mic your cab, you're probably golden. If you go direct.. unless you have your DI box as your amp/cab modeler, then it seems that having a hifi sounding cab with QUALITY tweeters ( not common ) would be the best option for a consistent sound. It seems that many people use their speaker choice a very large part of their sound.. but many people will never hear what you have dialed in on stage unless you are mic'd. Sound reasonable? Not trying to kick hornets nests here.


For one, it's '
"tweeter", not "tweater", but that's me just being an *******.

In general, I would agree with you, and more and more the way shows are run nowdays, it makes more and more sense to have a "PA-like" sound/speaker on stage to get a better idea of how you sound out front, make you sound better for the sound engineer who will in turn make it sound better for you, etc., etc., ...

This is where I Directly Inject my huge butt into the process....

A decent microphone on a good sounding speaker would take all that out of the process, provide natural highend and lowend rolloff, "mix slotting" if you will (provided the band is good at this on their own. A long shot indeed in some cases), and actually make their job easier.

If your band is worth a damn, and can manage to sound good on their own, then you don't need all this extra stuff. You can have a soundman, who takes your tones that already work well together, capture them all, mix levels, set mains eq to correct the room, then leave it alone, go chase girls, whatever.

If the guy has to run 5 bands worth of young people across the stage, all of whom are full of piss and vinegar and starry-eyed up and coming rockstars, yet have no clue how sound works and have their gear adjusted to sound like total crap outside their bedroom, I really pity that guy and have a huge case of empathy for him.

Some of us get upset at soundguys for playing producer instead of reproducer, but sometimes, just for the good of the public at large, they have to. Either that or drive away the entire crowd and lose their own job just for letting some band sound as crappy as they really do.
 
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Yeah. That makes sense. And my post was sort of a what if post.

To be honest I'd never really thought about it much before this thread. Agree about quality sound guys and mics and such. I guess I was thinking along the lines of what would be the easiest way to get a reliable sound to into the PA. Good points all.


Hey, I spelled it right by the end. :). I know how to spell it. Must have been checking my twitter feed lately prior to writing that post. My bad.
 
OK....I THINK this is on-topic. (not sure with the tweeter and tone control thing). But, I always use a tweeter. I play several different brands of cabs, but I mostly go to an Epifani 4x10 and GB 4x10. I both cases I leave the tweeters on 1/2. I leave my active basses flat or with a slight bass booth.

On the tone control thing: My main bass is a Fender PJ 4 string fretless with passive electronics. The tone is always rolled half off and has been for the six years I've owned the bass.
 
I play in an old blues/roots rock three piece and since 1969 have played in hard rock, folk, country and worship groups. I started using roundwounds in the mid 70's and tweeters in the late 70's. I have the tweeter pulled way back in my current rig, because of the 6.5" mid, but it's still there. I like clarity and definition and even the clank and noise that comes off an active bass with clean roundwounds when playing. It all becomes part of the music and vibe.

Whatever works for you is fine with me.
 
In guitar Amps, many of the Sears Silvertone & Montgomery Wards were Valco/Supro built.

They built amps for other vendors too.

Just one example of a No-Name Amp you've probably never heard of Vega V-70
Supro Circuit.

One of my all time favorite vintage amp demos!

Also note the highs come out just fine through a full range 15" without any need for a tweeter.



Leon picks up amps like this for next to nothing refurbishes them and as you can see has plenty to choose from.

He also custom builds various amps like this from scratch.


The guitar sounds nice. I'm not hearing the high-end shimmer and/or clarity I like to have which a tweeter gives me.
 
I would never question players that are happy with their no-tweeter cabs. Whatever sounds good is _right_.

But I will point out that if you've heard playback of your playing thru good studio speakers and liked it, then tweeters as a group are not the thing you dislike.

What you probably dislike is either
a) a less-than-smooth transition between the woofer and tweeter (i.e., the cab's crossover);
b) crappy tweeters; or
c) you just like old school sound which doesn't have a lot of high end.

If c), then there are many ways to cut the high freq's you don't care for; losing the tweeter is just one of them.
 
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