I'm predicting the end for Carvin.

[Roland GR 88]

They aren't going anywhere. They've always been a pro audio company that made guitars too. Now that they've split off the guitar side - where profits are a lot slimmer, they should do even better.
Keisel are competitively priced for what you get and they know a thing or two about the mail order business to boot.

Munch, munch, crunch, swallow..............the sound of me eating my words.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Munch, munch, crunch, swallow..............the sound of me eating my words.

Good of you to concede being wrong.

In terms of the margins on either side of the company, they would definitely be tighter in the audio/amp side of the world - especially when you consider they were always sold at value-level pricing. Guitars take a lot more time and care - especially since there is customization involved - but the margins for guitars are certainly better, especially since they aren't selling to dealers at a discounted price. Kiesel makes a better margin on a $1200 guitar sold direct than Fender does on an $1600 guitar sold through dealers.
.

 

[Honch]

Much amused reading the threads about OPs one and half year old prophecies like "you're so wrong", "not based on facts" and bla bla, and getting the liquidation email, posts now a year later. Where are those naysayers now that thought the OP was full of it?

 

[FingerDub]

Much amused reading the threads about OPs one and half year old prophecies like "you're so wrong", "not based on facts" and bla bla, and getting the liquidation email, posts now a year later. Where are those naysayers now that thought the OP was full of it?

To be fair, my post was focused on the bass side losing business, but I did mention the amps. Either way I had a hunch something would break, and broke down a few issues including competition and labor costs, which apply to the amps also though not explicitly stated..

I can't say I'm proud of it, I hate to see another good bass player resource go down. I am following the Kiesel FB page and it looks like the guitar side is going very strong, with them posting all kinds of new builds each day, and there is a lot of love for them there.

 

[Eilif]

Invalid Link Removed

Holy Smokes! That's really sad. I had a good couple years with a carvin Redline 8x10. I wonder if anyone will try and buy Carvin up and keep things going. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if someone buys it just for the name and starts making Carvin gear overseas.

Maybe Kiesel would buy the name to keep control over the name and maybe on some gutiars. I never quite understood why they dropped the Carvin name, but as has been suggested above, maybe they knew the Audio side was in trouble and wanted to separate themselves in advance.

 

[SteveC]

I just remember loving those catalogs in the late 80's with pictures of huge PA set ups with snakes and cabs and amps and all the stuff you needed for $x,xxx and thinking holy crap that's cool.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Holy Smokes! That's really sad. I had a good couple years with a carvin Redline 8x10. I wonder if anyone will try and buy Carvin up and keep things going. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if someone buys it just for the name and starts making Carvin gear overseas.

Maybe Kiesel would buy the name to keep control over the name and maybe on some gutiars. I never quite understood why they dropped the Carvin name, but as has been suggested above, maybe they knew the Audio side was in trouble and wanted to separate themselves in advance.

I watched a lot of Jeff's FB live today. He has zero *stated* interest in the amps and is slammed with the guitar side of things, so I sort of believe it. Down the road maybe, or of some of the more valued amp employees from Carvin Audio come over looking for work and are eventually allowed to invest time and money into more specialized amps.

Being in electronics (lighting) myself, what Carvin Audio is doing doesn't seem like a permanent bankruptcy/shutdown sort of thing. They're selling everything off and closing the doors on the manufacturing operation, but I suspect that they either already have things lined up to re-launch with outsourced manufacturing, or as you suggested, someone else is going to buy/license the name and continue in a different way - also likely outsourcing the manufacturing.

As for the guitars, Kiesel does own the rights to "Carvin Guitars" and will still put the Carvin name on any of the pre-existing models. They won't do it on new Kiesel specific designs, though, so the Carvin name isn't dying and Carvin branded guitars will continue to be made. I doubt anyone is going to find out the 100% full story of why the siblings split up the companies, but it does seem like Jeff specifically want to return to the original Kiesel name and to to create that differentiation between the companies, regardless of whether Carvin Audio succeeded or failed as a standalone entity.
.

 

[Eilif]

I watched a lot of Jeff's FB live today. He has zero *stated* interest in the amps and is slammed with the guitar side of things, so I sort of believe it. Down the road maybe, or of some of the more valued amp employees from Carvin Audio come over looking for work and are eventually allowed to invest time and money into more specialized amps.

Being in electronics (lighting) myself, what Carvin Audio is doing doesn't seem like a permanent bankruptcy/shutdown sort of thing. They're selling everything off and closing the doors on the manufacturing operation, but I suspect that they either already have things lined up to re-launch with outsourced manufacturing, or as you suggested, someone else is going to buy/license the name and continue in a different way - also likely outsourcing the manufacturing.

As for the guitars, Kiesel does own the rights to "Carvin Guitars" and will still put the Carvin name on any of the pre-existing models. They won't do it on new Kiesel specific designs, though, so the Carvin name isn't dying and Carvin branded guitars will continue to be made. I doubt anyone is going to find out the 100% full story of why the siblings split up the companies, but it does seem like Jeff specifically want to return to the original Kiesel name and to to create that differentiation between the companies, regardless of whether Carvin Audio succeeded or failed as a standalone entity.
.

Good to know.
I wasn't suggeting that Kiesel would start making amps, just that they would buy the audio name rights to keep full control of it. As to the Keisel business there's always the chance that things are bad behind the scenes but I agree with you that nothing seems to suggest that Kiesel (Carvin Guitars) is doing poorly. Folks keep generally reviewing them positively and they keep introducing new models.

Interesting observation about the possibility that Carvin Audio is deliberately preping for a planned reboot. I suppose it's definitely possible. The USA-made electronics biz is pretty rough (just ask Peavey), but I think the Carvin name is strong enough to carry on with import products if they perform well.

 

[jazzbass_5]

@FingerDub can you write down and message me the first 6 #s, 1-69, that come to your head. Thanks

 

[KohanMike]

Years ago I bought a Crate Limo battery combo amp made in the USA that was a great piece of equipment, still have it. A few years later they either sold the rights or themselves started manufacturing in China,but couldn't come close to the original quality. I wonder if the same thing will happen to Carvin.

A couple of years ago I bought an MB15 and 115 MBE and had them add neo speakers, extremely happy with with the rig.

 

[popcat]

CARVIN AUDIO Closes Factory After 70 Years, Will Liquidate Assets – Future Uncertain ...and the end is always near.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Well I'm having a nice plate of crow myself for saying I thought it would not happen. Sad really. I guess Kiessel will continue. Huge loss to players everywhere.

 

[countrybass5]

It's a common misconception that you can't get custom options in Kiesel/Carvin builds. If you want a MM pickup in a Kiesel bass, just supply them with it before the build. They will charge you extra, but that's to be expected, I guess.

1. The Kiesel breakoff seems to have hurt Carvin as far as BASS guitars go. IMO
2. Unusual bass styles no one has really taken to. IMO.
3. Instruments so good these days from everywhere that Carvin is not price competitive anymore.
4. But still pay US wages.
5. Poor reputation for amp failures.
6. So many quality boutique builders at competitive prices.
7. Incredible deals on all kinds of used instruments, way below Carvin prices.
8. I saw a poor instrument reveal video by the Kiesel son, which seemed unprofessional and desperate to me.
9. Carvin name is just not as powerful anymore.

It seems that until technology had caught up - that Carvin filled a real need. A quality American instrument, at below Fender prices with some customization. BACK IN THE DAY. Now, you can get what you want almost anywhere, and below Carvin prices for comparable quality or better.

I'm not too in tune with their guitar business, but I imagine that it's their pro audio gear and regular guitars that will keep them in business.

 

[countrybass5]

I'm REALLY SORRY to hear about Carvin closing their door...I just bought a B1000 head and 2 15in. Speakers and I couldn't be happier with them. I was planning to order a PB5 but now I don't know what to do. I don't want to take a risk that might not work out.

 

[gumbynotpokey]

Went back and read the OP's opening. As it is phrased, it seemed to predict the demise of the whole operation (amps, guitars, everything).

They were quite clear on the Kiesel BBS with an official announcement that the side that is closing is only the Carvin side (pro audio).

 

[Eilif]

Went back and read the OP's opening. As it is phrased, it seemed to predict the demise of the whole operation (amps, guitars, everything).

They were quite clear on the Kiesel BBS with an official announcement that the side that is closing is only the Carvin side (pro audio).

Just to clarify for anyone who didn't know, the instruments and audio sides split a bit ago and are separate companies.

 

[hrodbert696]

Much amused reading the threads about OPs one and half year old prophecies like "you're so wrong", "not based on facts" and bla bla, and getting the liquidation email, posts now a year later. Where are those naysayers now that thought the OP was full of it?

Right here. The OP was not fact-based and, as he himself posted, and as you can see from what forum this was in, he predicted the downfall of the guitar company, not the audio company. All his points but one were what he didn't like about Carvin/Kiesel guitars.

Mind you, pretty much every instrument maker is a private company, so in general we don't really know much about their bottom line unless (like Fender) they try to go public and publish that information for investors. We don't KNOW whose business model is profitable and who's bleeding money. Any given company could be on the verge of collapse for all we know. So you can predict anybody's downfall - and sooner or later, there's a chance it might happen, even if your prediction was not based on any real information. Even a shot in the dark will hit something once in a while.

 

[Eilif]

Right here. The OP was not fact-based and, as he himself posted, and as you can see from what forum this was in, he predicted the downfall of the guitar company, not the audio company. All his points but one were what he didn't like about Carvin/Kiesel guitars.

Mind you, pretty much every instrument maker is a private company, so in general we don't really know much about their bottom line unless (like Fender) they try to go public and publish that information for investors. We don't KNOW whose business model is profitable and who's bleeding money. Any given company could be on the verge of collapse for all we know. So you can predict anybody's downfall - and sooner or later, there's a chance it might happen, even if your prediction was not based on any real information. Even a shot in the dark will hit something once in a while.

Agreed.
Not going to say anything about the OP personally, however -despite a bit of creative reinterpretation of the past- his prediction was 2/3 off or more.

He predicted the end of carvin basses (1) with the guitars(2) and audio(3) supporting the business.

A year later...
(1)Basses seem to be doing well.
(2) Guitars also doing well.
(3) Audio -as we know it- is gone.

That's 1-in-3.

 

[FingerDub]

LOL yeah I was way off. I'm not some savant or anything.

Right here. The OP was not fact-based and, as he himself posted, and as you can see from what forum this was in, he predicted the downfall of the guitar company, not the audio company. All his points but one were what he didn't like about Carvin/Kiesel guitars.

Mind you, pretty much every instrument maker is a private company, so in general we don't really know much about their bottom line unless (like Fender) they try to go public and publish that information for investors. We don't KNOW whose business model is profitable and who's bleeding money. Any given company could be on the verge of collapse for all we know. So you can predict anybody's downfall - and sooner or later, there's a chance it might happen, even if your prediction was not based on any real information. Even a shot in the dark will hit something once in a while.

Agreed.
Not going to say anything about the OP personally, however -despite a bit of creative reinterpretation of the past- his prediction was 2/3 off or more.

He predicted the end of carvin basses (1) with the guitars(2) and audio(3) supporting the business.

A year later...
(1)Basses seem to be doing well.
(2) Guitars also doing well.
(3) Audio -as we know it- is gone.

That's 1-in-3.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

LOL yeah I was way off. I'm not some savant or anything.

You knew there was a negative message in the tea leaves, just had them a little out of order. That's better than most, who don't notice the leaves are even there