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Double Bass I'm ready to check out a mic.

J

James Gibson

Mar 3, 2007
266
4
Brooklyn, NY
www.myspace.com
#1
Hello everyone.

I'm really interested in using a mic to amplify my bass's sound, but I'm naive to a lot of the technical aspects of the ordeal. After a search of the forum, I feel like the Audio-Technica ATM350 would best suit me in terms of price range and setup. It is one of the cheaper options I've seen get good reviews on this forum, and I like the fact that it's discreet and clamps onto the bass. I'd like to eventually move up to the DPA 4099, but I feel like I could stand to try a cheaper option before dropping $500-$600.

My question:
-Has anyone had success with this mic (ATM350) through an amp? Most of my gigs don't have substantial PA support, if any at all. I've only played a couple outdoor gigs ever, most of my playing happens in bars/restaurants or at school. I'm currently happy using an EA iAmp 800 into a Wizzy 12 M-Line. Also, would I need any new gear (preamp, etc.) to use a mic with this amp?

-Would this mic serve me well in a big band situation? I find I need the most volume for these gigs.

I apologize in advance if the answers to these questions are common-knowledge. Like I said, I have no experience using a mic with DB, but it's something I've always wanted to get into.

Any suggestions of mic makes/models I should be pointed towards would be greatly appreciated too!
 
#2
I don't like using a mic through an amp. I have a AT35pro and use it whenever there is a FOH setup and love it but I've never had success through an amp. The sound is just ok and you now have feedback to contend with. Some guys use a mic signal to add some air to a pickup but I've even found that is more trouble than it's worth. That said I've done plenty of gigs with only a mic when a PA is available.
 
#3
fingers said:
I don't like using a mic through an amp. I have a AT35pro and use it whenever there is a FOH setup and love it but I've never had success through an amp. The sound is just ok and you now have feedback to contend with. Some guys use a mic signal to add some air to a pickup but I've even found that is more trouble than it's worth. That said I've done plenty of gigs with only a mic when a PA is available.
Click to expand...

That's useful insight. Maybe I don't really need a mic since there isn't usually PA support at the gigs I play. Actually, I can't think of an instance when I've seen a bassist use a mic around here besides the guys coming through with touring acts who rented/borrowed a local bass and popped an H-clamp on it.

Any other opinions are welcome.
 
#4
Hi James. I would say go for it dude.

I rarely have PA support on my gigs. But I have a DPA on my bass ready for those occasions.

I have been blending a mic (Beyer M88 TG) and a pickup (Rev Solo II) thru my amp for a few years now. It works really well for me.

The mic adds more than "air" for me. It adds wood. It adds resonance. Think Sam Jones. :D It takes the "edge" off the sound of my pickup.

( It might just be a phase cancellation thing. The Beyer does better at this blending thru the amp thing than the DPA, for me. )

Heck, it might not work for you. But if you want to go down the mic route, I say go for it! What a sound! You never know 'til you try. And if it works, you'll never regret it.

Make a good sound. :)
 
#5
Everything Steve says is totally true. The reason I gave up using a mic through an amp was ease. So many of the places I/we play are less than ideal acoustically and I felt like the mic was more monkeying around than I wanted to do for what felt like minimal gain for me. I tried it for several years with a variety of mics with varying degrees of success.

Like I said though I use a mic whenever there is a PA. I have a steady where the singer has a pretty nice PA and I go mic only into his PA and totally love it. I did a show in a 1000 seat theatre not long ago that had great acoustics, a Mason and Hamlin concert grand on stage, tasty drummer, mic only. Heaven.

I'll also go pickup to amp and mic to FOH whenever that's available for louder stuff.

Bottom line... it is fun to mess with and might make it's way into you regular setup. Go for it.
 
#6
+1, all that fingers. Well said.

Definitely worth a shot James. PM or email me if you like. I am just north of the border. :)

In your profile, you wrote "Charles Mingus absolutely first and absolutely foremost." Was listening to Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus earlier today. Man. Nothing else quite like him as an individual, a bassist, or a composer / leader.

Try the mic thing dude. And report back.

Dig. :cool:
 
#7
Definately worth trying out, you may be able to make it work for you.
I've not had a lot of success using my ATM 35 through an amp though.
I've tried all sorts of mic placements on my Bass.
It seems to work best when the foam shield on the mic is touching the bass pretty tightly.
Great sound but if I turn it up to where its usable, it picks up all the stage noise (drummers and such).
Unfortunately, the places I/we usually play in don't allow for a lot of space.
Eventually I gave up, the Bass sounds great with just the pickup anyways.

If I'm on a stage with FOH sound (outdoor concerts, festivals etc) there's usually a lot more space so we can get away with a mic with good side cancellation properties, such as an EV RE20, sometimes mixed with a direct out from my Doubler. But for the usual indoor gig on the usual stage I find my pickup gets a good sound and is a lot less trouble
My guess is that the audience doesn't hear the difference, or doesn't really care anyways.
 
#8
I use an RE 20 to the FOH a majority the time myself, and use pickup/amp as a monitor when called for. Like people are saying here, it's good to be versatile if you can. Sometimes i'm all D.I. when the sound guy is a jerk, or if i'm using FX.

I haven't ran a pro 35 through an amp, but i have done it with Re20 successfully. It's important to use a Lo Z to Hi Z mic transformer (xlr to 1/4") to match the mic impedance to the amp impedance. They are usually 15 bones or so.

There is a bass player in chicago named josh abrahms that i saw once run an re20 through the club's eden 4X10 (i'm pretty sure the sound guy gave him an earful), and it was the most amazing live tone i had heard at that point.

I say give it a go (i'm going to tonight in fact), just remember the impedance transformer (and don't leave your pickup at home).
 
#9
For the record the pro35 is just one of about 10 mics I've tried including the RE20. Varying degrees of greatness through the house. Not so much through an amp. I'm not trying to poo-poo the idea though. Definitely worth a try. I tried for about 2 years with all kinds of mics before I decided on the amp on stage mic to the house scenario. Along the way I learned alot about mics and what I can expect from them. Truth be told I had the best luck with a SM58 shoved through the afterlengths when my amp was involved.

Josh is a great player and he makes a big sound without an amp. It also depends on the playing situation. I feel like I get a big sound too but if too much chaos is going on around you or you have a drummer bashing away or something a mic just doesn't work. Doesn't matter what it is. As volume increases and you are blending you end up turning up the pickup and turning the mic down to avoid feedback to the point where the mic is just for show.
 
#10
Thank you for all of your insight. I've decided to give it a go, and I ordered the Headway preamp last night. It should be in Monday.

The second part of the equation is the mic... The DPA 4099 is looking like a serious option now. As for the RE20 and other "non-clip-on" models, how are you guys mounting them on/around your basses? I've read Sam Sherry's method of suspending the mic on rubberbands between the afterlengths. Will an H-Clamp work for these mics, or do you use a mic stand in front of your bass like the masters did?

Thanks, again. So excited to check out the Headway and eventually work with a mic!
 
#11
I did the h-clamp the rubberband thing and shoving the mic through the afterlengths. Each had pro and cons.

The H-Clamp works well for lighter mics. I tried it with the SM-58, SM-57, Beta-57, and Audix D2. On my bass the RE-20 was too heavy as was the Beta-52.

The rubberband thing is cool but IME works better for mics that either have a wide pattern or are side address. I know many guys that leave the mics on their basses but I also was always worried that the mic was going to come loose and scratch the top in transit.

Once I settled on the SM-58 as my mic of choice I went to the afterlengths method. Every soundman has plenty of extras on hand and I was always able to get a good sound. We recently did a little tour to NYC and I didn't use an amp in any club. Just 58 to FOH.
 
#12
I have never played with a mic much. Now that I am playing in acoustic groups with little to no drums I am interested. From what I can gather with this thread and others is:

Pick up to amp
Mic to FOH or powered speaker (no amp)

I am watching Jason's thread since most of my playing is 50/50 pizz/arco and a mic sure would do the bass justice with the bow.
 
#15
I'm with Marc. I hate monitors, and if I need one I want only others instrumens in it, no drums or bass. sometimes I use a little pick-up in amp.
when I watch the old video of the masters, I noticed that there was no monitors on stage, even John Coltrane Quartet with Elvin...
so I think if possible to play without monitors. I think they change the acoustic sound of a jazz group.
 
#18
James Gibson said:
Thank you for all of your insight. I've decided to give it a go, and I ordered the Headway preamp last night. It should be in Monday.

The second part of the equation is the mic... The DPA 4099 is looking like a serious option now. As for the RE20 and other "non-clip-on" models, how are you guys mounting them on/around your basses? I've read Sam Sherry's method of suspending the mic on rubberbands between the afterlengths. Will an H-Clamp work for these mics, or do you use a mic stand in front of your bass like the masters did?

Thanks, again. So excited to check out the Headway and eventually work with a mic!
Click to expand...
Hi James.

FWIW, and since you asked ...

I use the H-clamp to mount a Beyer M88 TG mic on my bass. I send that signal and the signal from a Rev Solo II pickup to my 2-channel amp on every gig. That's my set up and my sound for all my (largely smallish and unremarkable) gigs.

I also now have a DPA 4099B on my bass. After some experimentation, I decided to keep it there for those situations where there is a FOH.

I've only used a mic suspended between the bridge legs once. It was a Neumann KM 184. But that was in a studio, behind a baffle. It made a great sound. That said, fingers and others have provided some great advice re: mics too.

Good luck! Enjoy. Keep us posted. And make a good sound. :)
 
#19
Alright, it turns out I have a graduation gift for undergrad coming my way. I recently bought the Headway EDB-1 and I'm really starting to like the way it rounds out my sound with just the signal from the Realist. I briefly tried my professors AMT mic, both blended with the Realist through the Headway and by itself through my iAmp800/Wizzy 12 MLine. I liked the tone of mic, but I couldn't get enough volume before feedback to convince me I could gig with this model.

My question is, what are you opinions on DPA 4099b vs. Schertler Dyn-B. Are they similar or not really in the same ballpark as one another?

Again, I have very little experience with mics, more so second-hand. The only experience I have with the Schertler is that my professor uses one, and his friend Jeffrey Eckels (Bs. Prof. at U of Nebraska, who'se tone I was in love with!).

So, DPA 4099b or Schertler Dyn-B?
 
#20
James, FWIW ...

Several years ago I demo'ed the DYN-B. Then I sent it back. I could not get a happenin' sound w/ it. Others including your professor get it to work great, and that's cool. I'm sure you've read the posts here on TB. As for me, I could not, with my bass, strings, amp(s), fingers, et al.

So I'd vote DPA. For one thing, no green putty worm involved. :smug:

Seriously, I'm no heavyweight, but I think the DPA makes a better sound. You did ask. :)

I'm sure others will chime in. Carry on.
 

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