I'm Sick of Subs

[LiquidMidnight]

I've never played with a drummer who needs it. But they do know how to tune their drums .

I'm not a drummer, but my understanding is it's not a "need" so much as something that just greatly enhances and helps with performance. I've played at venues that have what would normally be an entire medium-sized FOH PA column (i.e., top and sub) sidewashed as the drum monitor. I can't imagine it being good for hearing health, but drummers seem to like it.

And I've been fortunate to have played with drummers who know to tune their drums. Unfortunately, I've been privy to listening to drummers who don't know how to tune their drums.

For me personally, I'm not very picky about monitors - so as long as I can hear lead vocals and my vocals - but if the monitor reinforcement can handle kick drum, I will request it. It definitely helps with locking in.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Nobody needs boof boof boof lows from monitors to lock in to the kick. The dum dum dum of the beater is plenty.

 

[shastaband]

It happened again last night at a Brian Wilson concert. Vocals sounded good, guitars, keys, sax, all fine. But the bass and kick drum were too loud and undefined. Definitely out of balance. I wished I could have gone to the board and cut the subs by 9db or so. Some beautiful a Capella stuff and then the bass drum kicked in through the subs and it sounded like crap. Do all sound men ride around in those cars with the exaggerated bass and think that sounds good? I still hate subs!

 

[biobass]

Sometimes after technological advancement it takes a long time for artistic advancement to catch up. I remember some pretty awful, screechy sounding LPs, even from Deutsche Gramaphone, when "digital" recording first came on the scene. I've been playing for almost 50 years. It is only fairly recently, maybe 25 -30 years or so, that the cost of power has dropped to the point of not being a primary limiting factor in sound reinforcement systems. This has allowed the use and overuse of power hungry subs. When power was relatively more expensive, only the very top tier acts could afford to really support those low frequencies. I remember going to hear Springsteen during the Born In The USA tour and being very disappointed in the, in my opinion, overly bass and drum mix. At first I chalked it up to it being a stadium concert. Later, after I finally heard the CD, I realized that was how they wanted it to sound. Definitely not to my taste. Now, we have the power to run subs and amplify very low frequencies to pretty high SPL in the hands of not so judicious or experienced operators. I also remember the first time I heard a live performance of Richard Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra. That low pipe organ pedal tone C during the introduction ( theme from 2001 A Space Oddesy film) was very impressive. I wonder what the reaction of listeners back in the 1890s was. Did they find it muddy and unclear to their ears?

 

[RoadRanger]

It happened again last night at a Brian Wilson concert. Vocals sounded good, guitars, keys, sax, all fine. But the bass and kick drum were too loud and undefined. Definitely out of balance. I wished I could have gone to the board and cut the subs by 9db or so. Some beautiful a Capella stuff and then the bass drum kicked in through the subs and it sounded like crap. Do all sound men ride around in those cars with the exaggerated bass and think that sounds good? I still hate subs!

I'll re-iterate that it isn't the sound guys - it's the people that hire them over the ones that can mix properly. Had my new combo subs/bass-cabs out a couple weekends ago - lovin' the 1x15 per side, no lead kick here .

 

[woody357]

seems to be another reason these Bose L1 systems sound so great when you see smaller shows. everything coming from one spot. also, because Bose speakers are awesome. but even the other companies jumping on sound great too. heard the Carvin version....also awesome.

i'm curious about 2-L1 setups with 2 "sticks" of sound. i wonder if you have the same problems.

love to get one of these systems but, they are waaay out of my price range. seems overly high for what it is.

I played in a band that used two L1 1S with the B2 bass mods. It was great. I have one set and it handles most small to moderate gigs. Looking to get another set. We ran the whole band threw it at mod to low volume. Drums bass guitar, keys two singers. It was great. We still used back line to push the should the pa just gave a even live sound.