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I'm Sick of Subs

#21
Ha. I thought this thread was gonna be about players who fill in when a regular band member can't make it!

Anyway, yeah, I wish I had a dollar for every live show I've seen that was ruined for me by this problem. In most cases it has sounded to me like the main issue was over-amplification of the kick drum, which seems to be the trend these days whether subs are being used or not.
 
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#22
In those instances, that is when you hammer on you Meatbox and completely suck the air right out of the room. The sound guy will be like, "***??!!! I need to bump those subs down a bit!". Then you kick back off after a few min. That'll teach em hehe
 
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#23
Another big problem is where mixing positions are located. For instance many small venues put their mix position against the back wall or, often times worse, in the back corner. The problem is that nodes and antinodes often happen at these locations. I have been at a club where the mix was awful on the floor then I walked up to the mix position and it sounded great. Luckily most live sound engineers know about this nowadays and will leave the mix position to check out the sound, but you still run into the old timers who didn't used to have to use subs and the noobs who just don't know they are supposed to check the mix in other locations.
 
#24
seems to be another reason these Bose L1 systems sound so great when you see smaller shows. everything coming from one spot. also, because Bose speakers are awesome. but even the other companies jumping on sound great too. heard the Carvin version....also awesome.

i'm curious about 2-L1 setups with 2 "sticks" of sound. i wonder if you have the same problems.

love to get one of these systems but, they are waaay out of my price range. seems overly high for what it is.
 
#25
20db pad said:
My theory is that people are used to hearing huge, booming low end from their home theater systems in their living rooms and immediately connect that with "entertainment" somehow. It just wasn't as big of a thing 25 years ago when a person could watch a movie at home without the walls and windows shaking.
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I reckon there is something in that. Even in my own case, I find i am looking for more bass from my (pretty expensive) HI FI system, purely as a result of listening to my entertainment system with its active sub unit.
In recent years there have been many a gig where the subs just ruled over everything. Don't get me wrong, I like my music loud and if it gets my teeth rattling fair enough. However when those subs get my gums rattling, I am out.
 
#27
This is probably the number one thing about playing live that irritates the hell out of me. The drums are always too loud in the mix, and there's always too much coming from the subs.

Honestly, I bought a huge rig just so I could use stage volume. It doesn't sound as good as a properly done p.a., but at least you can tell what I'm playing. I'm sure that whoever runs the sound hates me.
 
#29
1. It used to be that sound systems struggled to keep up with the lows. Too much bass was not an issue.
2. Add in the hip hop and other dance music, where the "BUMP" is everything - that's what's popular in clubs and with many young people (I took my son to a Pitbull concert last year and dealt with it).

There is a difference between mixing for a music show and a dance show - many soundmen don't differentiate. Shame.
 
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#30
You are not sick of subs, you're sick of sound guys that haven't a clue in balancing the tone out. And I fully agree, everything sounds like a low end warzone. (But I better quit before somebody recites the don't slag on the sound guy rule )
 
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#31
shastaband said:
Even though I'm a bass player, and love the low end, I have become thoroughly sick of subwoofers (especially in small venues). Hardly anyone uses them tastefully to enhance the low end response of the FOH PA. The subs are usually cranked to the point where the low end is just a big mess of woofy sound with no definition.

This even happened at a recent Tower of Power concert I attended. Rocco Prestia is one of my favorite bassists. I've seen him a number of times over the years and love his rapid and articulate bass parts. Yet at the most recent concert the subs were cranked so much the the bass drum and bass were just a mass of low end noise with absolutely no definition of the individual notes. (The drums were also WAY too loud, making the singer scream to try and be heard over the rest of the band. He couldn't sing with any subtlety or nuance at all.)

This tendency is especially pronounced in small club venues, where a decent bass amp could easily carry the room, but the subs are often so loud that everything else, especially the vocals, are buried. Why, oh why, do people turn up the subs so much? Is it due to deaf sound men? The popularity of rap/hiphop music with exaggerated bass lines? The prevalence of DJs pumping out overly bass-heavy recordings everywhere?

It drives me nuts that something that is designed to enhance the sound ends up ruining it for me.
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Is it cool if I post this on Facebook? I have made and head this same point numerous times in these forums, and feel that we need to take this message to a broader audience. I know it won't solve the problem, but maybe, over time, we can raise some public awareness (or something)
 
#35
gregmon79 said:
In those instances, that is when you hammer on you Meatbox and completely suck the air right out of the room. The sound guy will be like, "***??!!! I need to bump those subs down a bit!". Then you kick back off after a few min. That'll teach em hehe
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Been there, done that....... And it WORKS ! ! ! ! Of course, you're the bad guy for a while, but we must sacrifice for the band/sound.
 
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#37
Anyone operating subwoofers, no matter where in the USA, should be monitored by the government. I mean, how else can we eradicate this bad, bad thing that is destroying our music? Operators should have to attend a 4 year program and achieve a GPA of 3.5 or higher. After receiving their "Subwoofer Contractor's License" they shall be closely watched by Big Brother. It's the only way, folks. Lol.
Saw the Charlie Daniels Band play in July of 2013, 3 months before our beloved Taz died in a car crash ....... pretty good concert for the most part, until the sound guy decided to kick the subs waaaay up when the bassist, Charlie Hayward, did his solo. Seems like he would've gotten a clue when just about everyone in the audience put their hands over their ears..........stoooooopid.
I've always wanted a bumper sticker that read "Outlaw Subwoofers", but I figured it would be just asking for trouble.
ALSO! I have deaf neighbors right next door that keep e-mailing me and telling me to turn the sound down........ just about every time a car with subs drives by. OY VE !!!!......
 
#40
Feral Feline said:
OP I hear you.

Herbie Hancock's touring sound engineer ruined the entire show here last year. It was so bad I actually complained to the venue staff after just a few songs, but they couldn't do anything about it because Hancock's crackpot engineer was calling the shots.

I've attended many concerts at the same venue and it never sounded so bad. In fact, I was there the last two nights for Patti Austin, Janis Siegel and Elisa Chan and the local engineer did a great job (as he always does).
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I had a similar experience with Martha and the Vandellas. Half the band need not have turned up. I tried to tell the engineer what was required in terms of pulling the low bass, which would have given the rest a fighting chance to be heard, but to no avail.
 

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