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I'm tired of lying.

#41
Theory gives you more tools with which to be creative and original with! It doesn't make you stale, boring, or soulless (all things I've heard in defense of not learning). People that are true masters of their trade and who create beautiful, original, and functional items or services (whether it's instruments, furniture, etc.) all have a mastery of the techniques and tools associated with their trade. They don't lock themselves in a room with a log and a Swiss army knife and create just on the merits of their "originality" or "soul". Do yourself a favor and put your great ear to really good use and let it help you learn your tool and your trade better!
 
#42
Another example: Bassists who understand harmony can make better (more deliberate, tasteful, effective) use of things like inversions (playing a note that's not the root of the chord) and pedal points (playing a single note under several chords in succession). And you can create suspensions. (Say you're in the key of C and you have a bar of G7 followed by a bar of C. You could play an F note on the last beat of the first bar, hold it through the first beat of the second bar, and resolve it to an E note on the second beat of the second bar.) People who play by ear can also find this stuff, but it's so much easier when you know harmony, as well as the fingerboard. You're in charge!
 
#43
dougjwray said:
Another example: Bassists who understand harmony can make better (more deliberate, tasteful, effective) use of things like inversions (playing a note that's not the root of the chord) and pedal points (playing a single note under several chords in succession). And you can create suspensions. (Say you're in the key of C and you have a bar of G7 followed by a bar of C. You could play an F note on the last beat of the first bar, hold it through the first beat of the second bar, and resolve it to an E note on the second beat of the second bar.) People who play by ear can also find this stuff, but it's so much easier when you know harmony, as well as the fingerboard. You're in charge!
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That's what I was saying earlier - so I played in rock/pop bands with no discussion of theory for decades - but in a few months of studying theory as part of a Jazz course , I discovered things that I would never have realised just from listening to other bassists and found ways of looking at harmony that allowed me to play lines I would never have come up with in a million years before!
 
#44
Bruce Lindfield said:
That's what I was saying earlier - so I played in rock/pop bands with no discussion of theory for decades - but in a few months of studying theory as part of a Jazz course , I discovered things that I would never have realised just from listening to other bassists and found ways of looking at harmony that allowed me to play lines I would never have come up with in a million years before!
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Agreed!
And another thing:;)
When you know harmony and the fingerboard, you can play anything in any key. Ever meet someone who knows licks that work "in one key" or "in one place on the neck"? Silly, right?
 
#48
#49
Michael Case said:
Learning theory doesn't mean you stop playing by ear. You're just giving yourself the knowledge to identify what you hear and respond accordingly. It's not an either or kind of situation, both work together to create a complete musician and not just an instrument owner.
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Agreed. Knowledge of music theory is NOT the set of handcuffs some claim it is.

It's amazing what you accomplish and how much you can grow when you put some time and effort into learning. I know, because I can see how far I've come in the last year of taking lessons compared to the what I accomplished in the previous eight or nine years of "playing by ear".
 
#51
A really succinct piece from British bassist Dave Marks.

Thought it was very relevant to the discussion here i.e. you need a balance between chops and theory...

"Ideas are bullets and technique is the gun..."

Link Removed
 
#52
cmewhinney said:
Go check out some PC and tell me he doesn't repeat himself.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The second book on that page is entitled "Secret Chambers". You'll be surprised at how much he repeats himself.
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Well - I was talking about Jason Yarde who plays Alto Sax and the point was specifically about a soloist in a Free Jazz setting - where there is no specified harmony.

Of course if you are playing changes and the changes repeat, as they do, then there is nothing wrong with a bit of repetition in the bass line, as long as you are listening to the rest of the band and are working to produce great music! :)

But you are trying to compare apple and oranges!! ;)
 
#53
cmewhinney said:
Go check out some PC and tell me he doesn't repeat himself.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The second book on that page is entitled "Secret Chambers". You'll be surprised at how much he repeats himself.
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Ok - play a bass line over a set of repetitive changes, especially where there are four chord changes per bar at 240 bpm in common time, and any bass player will repeat themselves. What was being discussed was improvising something melodic and musical in a free jazz setting - there *are* no changes!
 
#54
TortillaChip520 said:
when i'm playing, i kind of noodle around with notes and make bass lines on the fly, but i have no idea what i'm playing. i might know, for example, that i'm in the key of C, and the song might change to A then G and back again, but i can keep playing random things that relate to C and still sound good, but it's 90% guesswork, and 10% luck: bassically "lying", because it still works but doesn't follow any music theory or any such thing (but hey, that's why it's music theory and not music fact ;)). are there any websites that lay out all the individual NOTES of each chord (rather than tabs or these: Link Removed)
i want to be able to use this wanking to it's full potential and actually KNOW what i'm doing, and actually do something productive with it :) :bassist:
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When you said in your example when you would be playing in the key of C, and it changes to A and G.

1. You're playing in a way that still direct the tonality back to the key of C.

2. The key of A is the relative of C, and G is the dominant of C. If you look at the music modes in this context, it makes sense why playing in C still sounds good under A and G, because of the said reasons of A being relative and G being dominant.

My friend wrote a song of Amin, Ddim6, G7 and Dmin/F with all those cards being played as a quarter note, meaning that is the measure. I basically played in Amin because the tonality points back to Amin anyway, and that I dont think I could play under those chords unless I want to highlight the root notes. Personally, imo, playing in Amin worked better than just highlighting the root note.
 

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