Improv tips (non-theory based)

[mambo4]

A Card deck of Briab Eno & Peter Schmidt's Oblique strategies might provide a useful stimulus for creative ideas.

Each card contains a phrase or cryptic remark which can be used to break a deadlock or dilemma situation. Some are specific to music composition; others are more general.
Examples include:

• Use an old idea.
• State the problem in words as clearly as possible.
• Only one element of each kind.
• What would your closest friend do?
• What to increase? What to reduce?
• Are there sections? Consider transitions.
• Try faking it!
• Honour thy error as a hidden intention.
• Ask your body.
• Work at a different speed.

Here is [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]that yields random oblique strategies

 

[Badwater]

The one thing that helped me with guitar solos and improve, fills and riffs was. Learning the various signature licks, riffs, and fills of the greats. EC, Billy Gibbons, SRV, Hendrix, Van Halen, Knopler, the 3 Kings (Albert, BB, and Freddie), Robert White, etc..., as well as modern players lesser known. Once you get the feel of how these licks fit in a song and the emotional element of them, you'll be able to recall them and insert them when you feel that same emotion and groove of a song. So, I would recommend, emulating the masters, stealing their licks, and incorporate them with your own twist.

 

[Lesfunk]

Where is Jeff Berlin when you need him?

 

[Wiremessiah]

The one thing that helped me with guitar solos and improve, fills and riffs was. Learning the various signature licks, riffs, and fills of the greats. EC, Billy Gibbons, SRV, Hendrix, Van Halen, Knopler, the 3 Kings (Albert, BB, and Freddie), Robert White, etc..., as well as modern players lesser known. Once you get the feel of how these licks fit in a song and the emotional element of them, you'll be able to recall them and insert them when you feel that same emotion and groove of a song. So, I would recommend, emulating the masters, stealing their licks, and incorporate them with your own twist.

There is nothing wrong with that approach, but the people that do that usually sound derivative. That along with so many guitar players out there has caused basically everything to be done a thousand times. I feel with music, especially improv, that i have to have a unique voice and that means looking for other repetoires of various world drums like african and indian drumming, and applying it to bass or kit or whatever. Instruments have a way of forcing a certain way of playing them, and i have to get past that to do new exciting things. Learning from bassists and guitarists is just not enoguh for me. The best way to sound totally different from anyone is to learn indian carnatic drumming/rhythm, which jonas hellborg has done, and he sounds different from everyone out there. Its tough at first but it pays off to approach the bass in a completely different way. Some are content to play genres and lines, like studio and gig bassists, but i have always tried to look beyond the status quo.

 

[Badwater]

There is nothing wrong with that approach, but the people that do that usually sound derivative. That along with so many guitar players out there has caused basically everything to be done a thousand times. I feel with music, especially improv, that i have to have a unique voice and that means looking for other repetoires of various world drums like african and indian drumming, and applying it to bass or kit or whatever. Instruments have a way of forcing a certain way of playing them, and i have to get past that to do new exciting things. Learning from bassists and guitarists is just not enoguh for me. The best way to sound totally different from anyone is to learn indian carnatic drumming/rhythm, which jonas hellborg has done, and he sounds different from everyone out there. Its tough at first but it pays off to approach the bass in a completely different way. Some are content to play genres and lines, like studio and gig bassists, but i have always tried to look beyond the status quo.

I see what you mean. Moroccan bass can be your destiny.

 

[Wiremessiah]

I see what you mean. Moroccan bass can be your destiny.

That stuff is okay, but rhythmically simple. I am talking more like this:

 

[Grylls]

The Hellborg piece above sounds like Mark King playing with a tabla player. I know it's more "mystical" because the performers are seated cross legged, but this isn't groundbreaking, amazing, or even interesting.

Please don't reply with the response that there are ancient Indian rhythms going on that the Luddites and unwashed masses aren't aware of. The rhythm subdivisions that Hellborg is playing are exactly the same things that Level 42 fans have been hearing from Mark King for the last three decades.

 

[bfields]

Might be more interesting if they weren't mostly just playing everything in unison? Seems a little odd as an example of improvisation. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Bill ONeal]

I transcribe a lot of solos. I particularly like to transcribe Chet Baker solos as most are very playable on bass. It helps your ear, your reading and your improv. I've done this since my days at Berklee 35 years ago. Also just try to play simple melodies and then work to build on them. I learned this when I studied with Miroslav Vitous. Tougher than it sounds but great for your ear. Most young bass players I hear today are ok on one or two chords (mostly E and A) solos but struggle when they try to play over more complicated changes. Transcribing puts these sounds and lines in your ear. If you want to improve your bass lines transcribe James Jamerson bass lines as most are in singer keys so you learn to play away from open string keys. You don't need theory per say to do any of this but you do need a good ear and an understanding of notation. If you can't read at all then just work on transcribing on your instrument.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Ya had to know that one of us was going to come along and take exception to this . I'll be the first.

My experience is that drug induced altered states of mind ultimately do more harm than good. First and most importantly, most people only believe they're coming up with more creative material, as they wind up focusing on drug enhanced nuances of what they're hearing and playing. Can't tell you how many times I've jammed with people who were stoned who thought they were playing the most brilliant stuff, when they weren't. They were just getting into it a whole lot more cuz they were stoned. Pot and other mind altering substances also, for some, quickly become something they depend upon. They start to believe they can't be creative without it, because it becomes less fun without it. I could go on an on about this... but you've all heard the arguments about why drugs are bad for you. Sadly, our culture is getting more and more dumbed down by the current acceptance of pot as a "positive" legal thing. No pot smoker will disagree that this is one of the greatest things to ever happen. I believe it's the movie Idiocracy coming to fruition. Short rant over for now....

A much better way, IMO, to stretch the mind is to alter it's state in ways that take a little more thought (and possibly, work). That could be as simple as envisioning different scenarios and trying to create them musically, or imagining a soundtrack to those scenarios. Or even choosing different emotions and expressing them with the same patterns or grooves. I can ride a single A and express rage, and I can do the same and express love, or tranquility. I can also listen to different music to change my state of mind, take a 5 minute break, meditate, or find other ways to get creative. I think this is all much healthier and much more mind expanding than drugs. I'm sure many will disagree. But I'm right and they're wrong .

Though you mentioned listening in your list, I'd like to add listening and locking to a particular instrument - and then switching off, locking with another, and then joining the two (or more). A lot of where that can go depends on how well the others do the same, so it's also a good idea (at times) to talk to bandmates before jumping into that half hour jam. Just to get a little more focused.

I'll agree with much of what you say Joe, but the Idiocracy folks in charge are pretty dead set against legalizing marijuana. They came by their idiocy just fine in its absence. Not to mention that medical opinion is that alcohol is far far more damaging to the brain, and society.

That said, the value of any drug in playing music is very limited, and solely for personal enjoyment, not achievement

 

[Gully Foyle]

Where is Jeff Berlin when you need him?

Florida?

 

[Grylls]

Florida?

Nashville as of a few months ago.

 

[Wiremessiah]

The Hellborg piece above sounds like Mark King playing with a tabla player. I know it's more "mystical" because the performers are seated cross legged, but this isn't groundbreaking, amazing, or even interesting.

Please don't reply with the response that there are ancient Indian rhythms going on that the Luddites and unwashed masses aren't aware of. The rhythm subdivisions that Hellborg is playing are exactly the same things that Level 42 fans have been hearing from Mark King for the last three decades.

Tabla is north indian, and the repetoire/ theory is specific to tabla. South indian or carnatic music has universal rhythms that can be applied to any instrument. Thats what that is. I have seen selvaganesh live, and trust me, he is no joke. He plays a few drums, but his main one is the kanjira, the lizard skin tamborine, which is simple, but what he does with it and his vocal rhythms is unreal, superhuman almost. This is not just me saying it, but he is one of the most revered percussionists in the world. And hellborg just being able to follow him is incredible. Just drop your defenses and open your mind:

 

[Grylls]

I'm sure the gentleman on percussion is a talented and noted figure. However, almost any accomplished slap bassist can play that stuff and Hellborg still sounds like a Mark King ripoff.

Hopefully you have some free time from insinuating that those that don't share your admiration for what you like are closed minded. If you're as interested in original sounds as you claim to be, investigate Mick Karn or Bill Laswell, who have their own styles and sound like themselves.

 

[Wiremessiah]

I'm sure the gentleman on percussion is a talented and noted figure. However, almost any accomplished slap bassist can play that stuff and Hellborg still sounds like a Mark King ripoff.

Hopefully you have some free time from insinuating that those that don't share your admiration for what you like are closed minded. If you're as interested in original sounds as you claim to be, investigate Mick Karn or Bill Laswell, who have their own styles and sound like themselves.

You are are not listening to the rhythms, or understanding them. I mean you can say beethovens piano sound was a ripoff of mozart. I suggest studying indian rhythm, it will open your eyes to a whole other world of music. And let go of the anger and bitterness.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Aren't these things in like 17/16 and such? Recall something to that effect, long long mnemonics to count

 

[Wiremessiah]

Aren't these things in like 17/16 and such? Recall something to that effect, long long mnemonics to count

Ask grylls. Apparently he can count all of the subdivisions and "exactly" match them to those of mark king.

 

[Grylls]

Ask grylls. Apparently he can count all of the subdivisions and "exactly" match them to those of mark king.

It's about hearing, not counting, Sparky. Any Level 42 fan could hear a copy of MK a mile away. Its actually laughable how much of a copy Hellborg is. If you are still playing in 5 years, you may hear the similarities yourself.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Wow, tried to get back to music, but whoa

Love when new accounts broadcast 'ignore me' early on

 

[bfields]

Just drop your defenses and open your mind:

Yeah, we could all maybe use a reminder not to let our prejudices and theories get in the way of careful listening.

Like, for example, the person just a little earlier in this thread who said "western music... focuses on cold mathematical structure." Or "Coltrane was a fabulous technical player, but so technical with so many flurries of notes that the notes become meaningless, like he's just shredding without feeling any of the notes."