Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Improv tips (non-theory based)
- Thread starter Wiremessiah
- Start date
I can't read that without hearing his voice:
Love that album! Not sure though if there was any deeper meaning to it than Miles Davis just being his cranky self.
I don't do any of that stuff.
It all sounds like too much work to me.
I just listen to great bass players on recordings, noticing carefully what they do.
Then I pick up my bass and emulate until I get close to what they are doing.
The only thing I can say is:- it pays to know where the all notes are on the neck and where all the inversions are.
I also spend quite a bit of time playing exactly what comes into my head. Think of note or notes and then play it. The idea being that you can go anywhere on the neck and play without thinking about how to do it.
Whatever bass riff comes into my head, I need to be able to play it instantly without wondering what to do.
Inversions and keys are a must for me, being able to switch up at any point at any time.
I don't care much what type of scale it is :- Pentatonic,Mixolydian etc etc etc. nor do I care about modes much.
I listen to what the drummer is doing...and ....what the rhythm section is using chordwise and where they're putting it.
Then I construct the bass line to complement them.
When I get to the point where every instrument is heard where it should be without me walking all over them but fully supporting them then I know I'm on the right track.
I spend a lot of time playing whatever comes into my head:-
Think it. Play it. Instantaneously. But then play it everywhere at all points it can be played and in different keys until I can go all over the neck at random.
The idea is to make it a "sixth' sense that one can do automatically.
It pays off for me..
It all sounds like too much work to me.
I just listen to great bass players on recordings, noticing carefully what they do.
Then I pick up my bass and emulate until I get close to what they are doing.
The only thing I can say is:- it pays to know where the all notes are on the neck and where all the inversions are.
I also spend quite a bit of time playing exactly what comes into my head. Think of note or notes and then play it. The idea being that you can go anywhere on the neck and play without thinking about how to do it.
Whatever bass riff comes into my head, I need to be able to play it instantly without wondering what to do.
Inversions and keys are a must for me, being able to switch up at any point at any time.
I don't care much what type of scale it is :- Pentatonic,Mixolydian etc etc etc. nor do I care about modes much.
I listen to what the drummer is doing...and ....what the rhythm section is using chordwise and where they're putting it.
Then I construct the bass line to complement them.
When I get to the point where every instrument is heard where it should be without me walking all over them but fully supporting them then I know I'm on the right track.
I spend a lot of time playing whatever comes into my head:-
Think it. Play it. Instantaneously. But then play it everywhere at all points it can be played and in different keys until I can go all over the neck at random.
The idea is to make it a "sixth' sense that one can do automatically.
It pays off for me..
Last edited:
I don't see how any of that list would make someone a better improvisationist, without at least some smattering of theory (even just intuitive). I don't buy the idea that some "artists" have that "it's music because I say it is". If you want to be a musician, do the work it takes to be one. There are no short cuts or end runs around it.
Anyone with real classical training will tell you that this is incorrect.
I love this website. There is a wealth of information here and can find about 98% of the answers you're looking for if you take the time to find an article and apply the advice given. Here is one of thousands of articles to give you a little taste of the content of the site.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
I think it's already been mentioned, but staying in one key and letting the rhythm guide you is a fun way to jam. It takes a long time to train your ears for this though, so you'll need to be committed if you want results.
The trio I play with went down this path a little over a year ago. It was very rough at first, but now we can play 30-45 minutes at a whack, no problem, and it doesn't get stale. It's like a long conversation. The key to it all, of course, is to listen to every one else and to support them. If everyone does this it is well worth the time it takes to understand it.
The trio I play with went down this path a little over a year ago. It was very rough at first, but now we can play 30-45 minutes at a whack, no problem, and it doesn't get stale. It's like a long conversation. The key to it all, of course, is to listen to every one else and to support them. If everyone does this it is well worth the time it takes to understand it.
I like this. I had a gig last Friday and it went very well. The singer introduced the band starting with the drummer and he soloed so I knew I was going to have to solo. Thankfully, I do know some theory so I was able to present an, off the cuff, decent solo. But, to Joes point, while I was in my solo I "heard" the keyboardist and drummer change up and it helped me find something different to do in my solo.
I also agree with Joes point on the drug issue. I couldn't imagine being "blitzed" when I should be in a stable frame of mind during a gig. Maybe some musician can handle it, but I personally need to be straight and have my mind clear.
Again, not sure how many times i have to say it, these are specifically non-theory based tips. It says nothing about the relevance of theory. Otherwise anyone could just do yoga and eat a healthy meal and pick up a bass and start improvising proficiently. Read the thread people.
But anyway, there are plenty of people who did take short cuts because they have a lot of talent. Naive art by talented people is a huge thing. But people who have put the work in dont really like it. But in the real world, there is no fairness. Some people just have talent that all the effort in the world wont accomplish. We just have to deal with that reality.
This thread is intriguing. I guess, then, I don't understand the premise. Improv in what context? Tips for doing what? I'm not being facetious man, I just genuinely don't understand. If a student wants to know some tips about how to make playing over a V7( or I guess I should say the bluesy sounding chord) sound more hip or out, I don't know how I would begin to answer that question for him/her without talking about target notes, tension and resolution, etc. Of course I could just show them and then they wouldn't need an explanation but there are sooo many options that at some point there would have to be an explanation I think. That's why I suggested earlier to just transcribe( learn solos from recording) a bunch and let certain improvisational elements eventually become a part of a persons playing. Without notation, and analyzation, I would think that would be the quickest way to gain some sonic and technical understanding about how to play over even the most difficult of changes without actually having an academic understanding.
Its not either/or except for the purposes of this thread. Its like i am asking for mexican recipes and people are like "b-b-but what about italian food"?
Perhaps your point would have been clearer had you said "improv tips in addition to theory".
I have always found musical interpretations of verbal phrases a fun way to improv, "So What" being a classic example. It can also be a non-theory way of accomplishing the same goal for instance we used "David Letterman" to play a quintuplet.
And there is of course a lot of similar phrasing we can hear and interpret from nature, cities, and soforth.
Can also play around with random number / chord generators.
And there is of course a lot of similar phrasing we can hear and interpret from nature, cities, and soforth.
Can also play around with random number / chord generators.
So when people write a thread headline in the Bass section of this forum, they should not write: "Looking for a great bass with J/J pickup configuration, suggestions please?" but instead: "Looking for a good bass with J/J pickup configuration, in addition to P basses, suggestions please?", in order to avoid people playing P bass feeling disregarded and overlooked and off railing their topic?
Makes a lot of sense.
Nah, not really!
I guess they should really have listed all other possible pickup configurations as additional, just to be 100% sure no one felt butt hurt.
Just do it!
Stop trying to play the right notes, and play the right notes!
Look into the mirror and tell yourself:
"I follow no other tempo than the one the flow of the Universe, no less, dictates me!
Yes, the Universe is my metronome, and the rhythm I play is love:
My hearts yearning crest against eternity's shore!"
10 times each day!
And live by these rules:
To feel the bass, you must think like the bass, be the bass, become one with the bass.
Stop trying to play the bass and let the bass play you instead!
Do what the music dictates you to do shall be the whole of the law.
Also remember rhythm is the path to the low side.
Rhythm leads to the melody.
The melody leads to joy.
Joy leads to love.
Love is the law, love for the music.
Stop trying to play the right notes, and play the right notes!
Look into the mirror and tell yourself:
"I follow no other tempo than the one the flow of the Universe, no less, dictates me!
Yes, the Universe is my metronome, and the rhythm I play is love:
My hearts yearning crest against eternity's shore!"
10 times each day!
And live by these rules:
To feel the bass, you must think like the bass, be the bass, become one with the bass.
Stop trying to play the bass and let the bass play you instead!
Do what the music dictates you to do shall be the whole of the law.
Also remember rhythm is the path to the low side.
Rhythm leads to the melody.
The melody leads to joy.
Joy leads to love.
Love is the law, love for the music.
What the hell does any of this have to do with what I posted?
Edit- I just read the previous post. Nevermind.
I was playing with a drone last night. Drums actually, not bass. But this is relevant to bass or any instrument. As i was playing, i started to only focus my ears on the drone while playing kit. Then i realized i could actually play the drone, or at least control the volume of the drone by playing louder or softer on the drums. This was very cool. Instead of playing your instrument, you play the drone with your instruments' dynamics. Good exercise for dynamics. Plus my kit is tuned to solid notes, so its a drone in itself, like a tabla.
Thats what indian classical rhythm is built on. This is by far the most important pasrt of studying tabla for me. Its so much deeper than simple verbal phrases. Check out hellborg lane and selvaganeshs album "good people in times of evil". Hellborg plays the bass with indian "konokol" or vocalizations. The drummer, selvaganesh, is the most badass volcalizer of rhythm i have ever heard. Track 3 on that album has a vocal rhythm solo that is surreal. The speed and complexity is something that is supernatural.
Something about tying rhythm to the speech centers of the brain makes rhtyhm so much more expressive. Imagine if you could play music with the same kind of rhythmic complexity as speech. This is something very few western musicians have utilized. There is an entire world of music that is almost completely unexplored. Hellborg is one of the few is not the only bass player to do it. He is the only guy these days IMO that is doing anythint fresh with slapping.
