At a recent gig, I had trouble hearing myself in the mix (we're using IEM's but we do have amps on stage with XLR out to a Soundcraft Mixer). I had to have my personal mix all the way up (my bass) and the rest of the band down low. When I turned up the rest of the band, the ambient noise was outrageous so I when I turned them back down to hear myself; it created a strange inarticulable mix. I tried to keep my amp volume reasonable, but had to turn up to be heard, not just by me, but for the other members. I was loud in the mainstream, but with IEM, the mains were out in front and facing away, so I only had my mix to rely on. Turning up my amp defeats the purpose of IEM's. Help! Is this a sound engineering issue to be handled by the person on the laptop or is there something I can do? Windscreens on mics? Noise gates? Input gain? I'm lost.....
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Improving IEM Mix
- Thread starter TimothyLindeman
- Start date
How much control do you have over the mix.
Most people want their sound to be 6-10dB louder than other elements. How does your bass sound in the IEMs sound when you play solo.
One possible issue is the tone that sound great solo often disappears when other start playing. A common term for this is "bedroom tone."
Masking is a big part of the problem. Basically if multiple sound sources are producing the same frequency, you only hear whichever is louder. Something called frequency slotting is used to mitigate masking. Essentially you need to carve out a little space for bass to live. You boost the frequencies you need to hear most and cut others. On other sound sources you cut the frequencies that are competing with the range you need to hear. I am not talking massive amounts of cut or boost. Rather, you use gentle tone shaping to try to cover out a little space for the most important sound sources.
You don't necessarily need every sound source in your IEM mix. For example if the drum set it fully mic'ed, you might want bass drum, snare, and maybe a little overhead. You probably don't need any tom mics as the overheads should give you a good representation of the full kit.
If possible, use a stereo mix. Put your voice and bass at or near the center. I would put the bass drum in the center as well. Pan other sounds sources left and right in 3-5dB intervals up to about 15dB left/right. Pan the more important sounds closer to the center.
Avoid hard panning. Possible exceptions where you might pan harder than +/-15dB include narrow spaced drum overheads and stereo reverb. Pan overheads for a natural sound. Pan stereo reverb so the reverb is uniform across the entire sound stage. If a hole starts opening up in the center you have panned to far.
s0c9
Supporting Member
To add to @Wasnex comments,
It appears you have control over your individual mix. I'm assuming the SC mixer is a UI24R?
However, if the UI is also being used for FOH duty, your IEM [sound] mix will be based on EQ (effects, etc.) for channels going to FOH, so you'll only have level control (and amount of effects) in your mix.
That said, if the master level on your mix (AUX buss) is not set properly it COULD cause what you indicated.
Low AUC buss levels will cause noise when you turn up individual channels.
When using a mixer for both FOH and IEM's it's imperative that the channels and IEM mix levels be gain-staged correctly.
Beginners will tend to adjust input gains on channels during the gig - which mess with IME mix levels.
Check that your AUX buss level is set correctly.
Another newb mistake is only turning up what you want to hear more. As a result, over the course of a few gigs, eventually the mixer is likely to run out of headroom and start to distort.
The goal should be to keep the overall level of the mix near the optimal range. It's often a better choice to turn down elements of the mix that are too present.
I find if I am too loud in my in ear mix is that I tend to hold back until I get chance to turn the bass channel down a bit. The temptation is to always increase volumes rather than reduce them which leads to problems. I am learning now to turn down things rather than increase. The most important thing is to find a bass volume you can just about get away with then reduce which instruments you want to hear below that.
Have the person who runs the Soundcraft mixer take another look at the "Aux Sends" section of the manual. It describes how to fine tune settings for each player. If your mixer is the Ui24R, there are 8 different aux send channels that can be configured. If the settings for your channel are wrong, you'll never get this solved on your own. Worst case, the main outs are being used as the same signals to the aux send(s). That would be a complete fail!
Start with section 4.3 Aux Sends on page 57.
Start with section 4.3 Aux Sends on page 57.
The Ui24R, as are most digital mixers, is plenty capable to get nice sounding aux mixes. I will say, it’s not the easiest thing to learn. I’ll share some things that I think about:
- Less is more, other than my bass, I want as little as possible in my in ears. Just enough for me to track to the song
- Low frequencies tend to get in through your skull, there’s not a big need to add much more in the IEM’s. I tend to have my EQ on my IEM mix trim out a few db of lows. Pulling out a bit of lows tend to allow the ear buds to handle the other frequencies more cleanly
- Management of ambient sound from open mic’s is key. I try and keep just enough of the open mic’s in my mix - if it’s not critical it’s not in there. For those that are in there, they are low.
- It’s good to remember that ear buds are not as capable as full sized headphones, and, the mix coming through is not a studio-mastered mp3, rather, it’s quite volatile (peaky).
- I think of my IEM’s as ear plugs that allow me to hear a bit, I’m not trying to get a full mix, and not trying to keep it on the quiet side.
- If your IEM is loud and mushy where you are having hard time hearing your bass, you likely have way too much in there
- Less is more, other than my bass, I want as little as possible in my in ears. Just enough for me to track to the song
- Low frequencies tend to get in through your skull, there’s not a big need to add much more in the IEM’s. I tend to have my EQ on my IEM mix trim out a few db of lows. Pulling out a bit of lows tend to allow the ear buds to handle the other frequencies more cleanly
- Management of ambient sound from open mic’s is key. I try and keep just enough of the open mic’s in my mix - if it’s not critical it’s not in there. For those that are in there, they are low.
- It’s good to remember that ear buds are not as capable as full sized headphones, and, the mix coming through is not a studio-mastered mp3, rather, it’s quite volatile (peaky).
- I think of my IEM’s as ear plugs that allow me to hear a bit, I’m not trying to get a full mix, and not trying to keep it on the quiet side.
- If your IEM is loud and mushy where you are having hard time hearing your bass, you likely have way too much in there
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Second to last bullet above… meant to say I am trying to keep it on the quiet side
Been there.
My solution tends to be an IEM mix that sacrifices sound quality for giving me what i need to hear to create a good performance and protect my hearing.
On all but the largest stages that means I'm hearing myself a lot and letting everything else bleed through my vocal mic. No guitars. No drums. Don't need em, get em from the stage and the vocal mics. Doesn't sound great in my ears but the result is a great performance and sound FOH.
My solution tends to be an IEM mix that sacrifices sound quality for giving me what i need to hear to create a good performance and protect my hearing.
On all but the largest stages that means I'm hearing myself a lot and letting everything else bleed through my vocal mic. No guitars. No drums. Don't need em, get em from the stage and the vocal mics. Doesn't sound great in my ears but the result is a great performance and sound FOH.
The key to a good in ear mix is to first realize what you don't need in your mix. For example:
Some of the places I play at are very big rooms. Ambience mics in those rooms give big delays, which mess up my timing. No ambience mics. Similarly, there are often many (6 to 8 vocalists) on stage. If someone isn't singing lead on one of the tunes, they are off in my mix. This usually means there are 3 or 4 vocal mics on in my mix - that's plenty, and limiting the vocal mics that are on limits ambience (again, echoes and such) that comes in that way. A lot of vocalists like reverb on their voice - makes them feel less naked so they can singe better. Although they don't sound as good without it, that's off in my mix.
Drums - I do need to hear kick and snare well, but it doesn't all have to come in via my ears. There's usually some bleed from the drums themselves, and I add just enough in my mix to nail my timing. There's also some overheads in my mix, but I don't need a lot of the other spot mics, so they stay off.
Guitars, keys. A lot of the time I'm playing with an acoustic, 2 electrics and 2 keys players (usually piano and a B3). That's a lot of stuff. and hearing it all well isn't going to get me what I need.
What I do need is to know where I am in the arrangement, and have timing and pitch cues, to make sure i'm playing the right thing at the right time.
To that end, my mix has these things in it (from loudest to quietest);
1) Me. I m responsible for my part, gotta hear it.
2) (About as loud as me) - the lead singer. My job is support whatever he or she is doing, and if I can't hear him or her, that's a problem
3) Drums - kick, snare, some overhead. No effects on anything
4) Whatever instrument is best at giving me pitch cues - typically that's the piano keys player - that's more rhythmic and has more usable pitch information than the B3
5) The other guitars and the B3 are below this, those have to all be kept fairly low, so they don't step on the primary stuff
6) backup vocalists - usually off. There are some gigs where they aren't a lot of singers, and maybe I'll sneak some of those in, but I don't do that unless everything else is comfortably there, and there's room left for them.
The point is, everything in my mix is there for a reason - if something helps me do my job better , it's in my mix. If not, I get rid of it. My mix is not something that the audience would love to hear, but the result of it (that the band sounds better because I have the right information to do my job well) is something they hopefully do appreciate, even if they have no idea where all that came from.
Oh yeah, that topic. I find that NOT having an amp on stage is a huge help. Yes, it's fun to be flapping your pants with low end, but the bleed into my ears, and also into the audience makes everything messier and less precise. i like a dry mix that has just what I need, without anything to that gets in the way.
Some of the places I play at are very big rooms. Ambience mics in those rooms give big delays, which mess up my timing. No ambience mics. Similarly, there are often many (6 to 8 vocalists) on stage. If someone isn't singing lead on one of the tunes, they are off in my mix. This usually means there are 3 or 4 vocal mics on in my mix - that's plenty, and limiting the vocal mics that are on limits ambience (again, echoes and such) that comes in that way. A lot of vocalists like reverb on their voice - makes them feel less naked so they can singe better. Although they don't sound as good without it, that's off in my mix.
Drums - I do need to hear kick and snare well, but it doesn't all have to come in via my ears. There's usually some bleed from the drums themselves, and I add just enough in my mix to nail my timing. There's also some overheads in my mix, but I don't need a lot of the other spot mics, so they stay off.
Guitars, keys. A lot of the time I'm playing with an acoustic, 2 electrics and 2 keys players (usually piano and a B3). That's a lot of stuff. and hearing it all well isn't going to get me what I need.
What I do need is to know where I am in the arrangement, and have timing and pitch cues, to make sure i'm playing the right thing at the right time.
To that end, my mix has these things in it (from loudest to quietest);
1) Me. I m responsible for my part, gotta hear it.
2) (About as loud as me) - the lead singer. My job is support whatever he or she is doing, and if I can't hear him or her, that's a problem
3) Drums - kick, snare, some overhead. No effects on anything
4) Whatever instrument is best at giving me pitch cues - typically that's the piano keys player - that's more rhythmic and has more usable pitch information than the B3
5) The other guitars and the B3 are below this, those have to all be kept fairly low, so they don't step on the primary stuff
6) backup vocalists - usually off. There are some gigs where they aren't a lot of singers, and maybe I'll sneak some of those in, but I don't do that unless everything else is comfortably there, and there's room left for them.
The point is, everything in my mix is there for a reason - if something helps me do my job better , it's in my mix. If not, I get rid of it. My mix is not something that the audience would love to hear, but the result of it (that the band sounds better because I have the right information to do my job well) is something they hopefully do appreciate, even if they have no idea where all that came from.
Oh yeah, that topic. I find that NOT having an amp on stage is a huge help. Yes, it's fun to be flapping your pants with low end, but the bleed into my ears, and also into the audience makes everything messier and less precise. i like a dry mix that has just what I need, without anything to that gets in the way.
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s0c9
Supporting Member
Over the years, I've figured out that this ^^^ 10000% ^^^^ is the KEY !!
IOW - you're NOT listening to a CD recording. You only NEED to hear what allows you to do your job.
The rest is all fluff, distraction and ear fatigue.
