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Double Bass Impulse Response (IR) Loaders for live DB

#21
Happy Steve said:
In the 3sigma packs which I purchased they had a,b, and c versions of each IR which had differing amounts of bass. @tinyd did you try the various versions?
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Yep, I loaded them all into the Nux. There are differences, but they're subtle...I was happily surprised that they have different files for each type of DB pickup as had thought that their main purpose was for EUBs and BGs to get DB sound. But it seems like they are targeting my specific case as well (making DB pickup sound more acoustic).

They sell sets from lots of different basses as well - I picked the American as I preferred the sound on the clips on their site, but I'd imagine the differences are subtle once fed though the signal chain.

I'm going to record the before/after versions directly into my audio interface so I'll post some sound clips when I'm done
 
#25
FWIW, I tried my Boss IR-200 with my homemade EUB(3 Sigma German IR's with Full Circle) for the first time. It sounded shockingly good through my headphones. I'm going to try it through my Genzler Gollihur Bass Array soon. I am optimistic. Next, I'll try it on my double bass.

PS - Here's my son playing the bass without the IR loader. You can get an idea of what I'm dealing with....haha...
 
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#26
Is there a IR unit/pedal that can both load external IR files and also create IR files (like the Tonedexter) so you have the flexibility to use your own DB sound or other DB sounds in a live setting? Sorry if I am using the wrong terminology in referring to them as files.
 
#27
IRs are a recording of a vibrating object as a response of a very short and hard hit at the top of the bridge (string contact position).

The Tone Dexter does something different, calculating a filter from a pickup signal that generates the desired acoustic output of a recorded signal. This has something in common, but is more complicated. An IR is part of the thing, but that has to be calculated and refined during the learning process and also needs to back calculate the sound transformation of the pickup.
 
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#28
Thanks DoubleMIDI. I am not a tech minded person but that has helped with better understanding. Is there a product that can do both? I would like to "do" a Tonedexter to my own bass and also load other bass IR's such as 3Sigma to give me wider tonal options for live performance
 
#29
magicmerv said:
Thanks DoubleMIDI. I am not a tech minded person but that has helped with better understanding. Is there a product that can do both? I would like to "do" a Tonedexter to my own bass and also load other bass IR's such as 3Sigma to give me wider tonal options for live performance
Click to expand...
Not that I know of one.
The Tone Dexter would be fine for nice acoustically sounding instrument as you will get that sound from a pickup.
An IR (with an acoustically neutral pickup close to the strings) might get something better out of an instrument that doesn’t sound good acoustically.
 
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#30
magicmerv said:
Thanks DoubleMIDI. I am not a tech minded person but that has helped with better understanding. Is there a product that can do both? I would like to "do" a Tonedexter to my own bass and also load other bass IR's such as 3Sigma to give me wider tonal options for live performance
Click to expand...
A quick answer to your question of how to 1. Create your own IR 2. Use your own IR and other IR at gigs

1. It's relatively simple to record your own IR at home. There are a ton of different IR creation apps and plugins for your computer. You just need a mic and a laptop.

2. Now that you have your own IR + any IR's you may have bought or downloaded, then it's pretty simple to put them on an IR loader pedal. NUX, Mooer, Boss and tons of other pedal companies make a pedal for using IR live on stage.
 
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#31
cultrvultr said:
A quick answer to your question of how to 1. Create your own IR 2. Use your own IR and other IR at gigs

1. It's relatively simple to record your own IR at home. There are a ton of different IR creation apps and plugins for your computer. You just need a mic and a laptop.

2. Now that you have your own IR + any IR's you may have bought or downloaded, then it's pretty simple to put them on an IR loader pedal. NUX, Mooer, Boss and tons of other pedal companies make a pedal for using IR live on stage.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice ..........will do some research on this :thumbsup:
 
#32
OK I'm going to give this a go - I found a used TC for $100, my plan is to purchase one of the upright bass IRs from 3 Sigma Audio and use it on my pedalboard with the Eminence EUB. It'll be a few weeks, but I'll report back once I have it in hand and have figured out how to use it.
 
#33
bherman said:
OK I'm going to give this a go - I found a used TC for $100, my plan is to purchase one of the upright bass IRs from 3 Sigma Audio and use it on my pedalboard with the Eminence EUB. It'll be a few weeks, but I'll report back once I have it in hand and have figured out how to use it.
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OK, the TC arrived, it took a bit of time to figure it out but its actually pretty straightforward. I loaded up two different IRS - one is a 3 sigma Audio based on early 1900's American bass, the other is a free one that was recommended on TB. After some time playing with them, I decided that its not worth adding another pedal into my live playing chain. I'm going to post this in the classifieds, but thought I'd do so here first in case someone following this thread wants to give it a go. I paid $100 for the pedal and another $15 for the Sigma files, if someone wants to try it I'll pass it along for $100, with the two double bass IRs pre-loaded for you to try. Just pm me if interested, otherwise I'll pput it up on the DB classifieds page.
 
#34
bherman said:
OK, the TC arrived, it took a bit of time to figure it out but its actually pretty straightforward. I loaded up two different IRS - one is a 3 sigma Audio based on early 1900's American bass, the other is a free one that was recommended on TB. After some time playing with them, I decided that its not worth adding another pedal into my live playing chain. I'm going to post this in the classifieds, but thought I'd do so here first in case someone following this thread wants to give it a go. I paid $100 for the pedal and another $15 for the Sigma files, if someone wants to try it I'll pass it along for $100, with the two double bass IRs pre-loaded for you to try. Just pm me if interested, otherwise I'll pput it up on the DB classifieds page.
Click to expand...
How did the 3 sigma ir sound with your eub?
 
#39
TLDR: I experimented with IRs to find the frequencies I want to EQ, then made a custom IR that makes my EUB sound quite good. DB impulses sound good but I haven't experimented enough yet.

Long version:
I also recently got an IR loader (NUX NSS-4 Pulse) and a 3Sigma IR (The Crow). I have despaired of ever getting a good amplified sound from my acoustic DB, so I decided to work on the sound of my EUB.

For my EUB, the impulses on their own don't do the job, becasue they are not specifically made for my EUB so they introduce "bad stuff" in addition to "good stuff." I'm using a very custom made setup so this is not surprising: Ergo 4-string with Spirocore Mittels and a KNA UP-1 pickup.

However, I'm still planning to use the IR loader to dial in a set EQ with custom notch filters and boosts. Analyzing the spectrum of the IRs that I liked best helped me to find the frequencies I wanted to cut and boost. This knowledge alone was worth $115. Note that when you get a 3Sigma IR pack you get over 100 IR files: about 20 different instrument profiles with 10 different mics for each one, so there is a lot to experiment with. The pedal itself also came with 24 IRs built in. After experimenting with the IRs, I used a parametric EQ app on my phone (Poweramp) to really zero in on the frequencies.

I plan to use the pedal to EQ my EUB, so it definitely seems to be worth it so far (rehearsals and gigs yet to come). I really like how I can make my own IR to create any EQ profile I want (I take a flat IR and just apply filters in Audacity, then load the WAV into the IR loader). This will ensure that I always start with a good signal, since the EQ will always be exactly how I want it. It's basically a infinite parametric EQ with 24 available presets and no knobs to mess up so I don't have to dial it in manually every time. I can use the amp/PA EQ to adjust for the room, but at least I will be starting from a good signal that has all of the frequencies I want and none that I don't. The only other gear I use is an fdeck HPFpre.

So far I've gotten a surprisingly good sound that reminds me a bit of Chris Wood's sound on Friday Afternoon in the Universe: a not-quite-acoustic bass. Right now I have notches at 475 and 800, a shallow notch at 1000, a wide boost around 6000, and a HPF starting at 80. I suppose I could have created this with something like the Empress ParaEQ Deluxe, but it doesn't have enough cut for a real notch filter, the high shelf isn't exactly what I want, and I would have to fiddle with the knobs every time (and it's $250 more expensive). I'll record and post a sample once I get it really dialed in - I'm still tweaking.

As for applying IRs to the acoustic DB, the 3Sigma pack included an IR for the Realist Lifeline which I have on my DB - it sounded good to me so I might end up using that one with some modification. However I also have a KNA DB-1 in the mail from Gollihur because I liked the UP-1 so much - there is also an IR for that pickup in the 3Sigma pack so I have a lot of experimenting to do.
 
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#40
Okay, here's two samples. These are both recorded directly, plugging right into a PC interface, not recording a speaker with a microphone. Obviously the amp/speaker is a huge variable but I wanted to start with a good clean sound to avoid "garbage in garbage out."

First is my custom EQ impulse response vs the clean signal from the Ergo EUB with a KNA UP-1 pickup stuck on. I ended up just doing 2 notches at 475 and 800, with a HPF at 60, so it's fairly simple. There is some hiss - the "flat" IR was not actually flat, and has some high boost. I think I can get rid of that with a shelf filter or something later, but I wanted a small boost to the high end so I'm leaving it alone for now. The EQ/IR is first, then I switch the pedal off and back on throughout to show the difference. I think there is more work to be done, but this is a good start.

IR equalization vs clean

Comparison of IR loader and clean sound on the Ergo with UP-1 pickup. IR first. Notch filters at 475 and 800 HPF at 60
on.soundcloud.com on.soundcloud.com
OneDrive in case SoundCloud doesn't work:

Error

1drv.ms 1drv.ms

Here is my EQ IR file I used:

Microsoft OneDrive

1drv.ms 1drv.ms

This second clip is a comparison of a 3Sigma IR (The Crow, generic EUB version) with an aggressive shelf filter, -16db at 1400hz. As I said earlier, there is some good and some bad. I think there is potential if I want to monkey around with it more.

Crow IR 1400 shelf 16 vs clean

Comparison of 3Sigma Crow IR with shelf filter at 1400Hz -16db vs clean. Ergo EUB with UP-1 pickup. IR first.
on.soundcloud.com on.soundcloud.com
OneDrive: Microsoft OneDrive

All in all, I think it was a great success for $115 ($155 if you count the new pickup). It's far from perfect at this stage, but the EQ/IR is already way, way better than the sound I get from my amplified DB.
 
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