In all keys?

[TN WOODMAN]

I haven’t read every post in this thread but in that old interview Jaco did with Jerry Jermott , he said his dad early on told him to learn all the keys. So he did. Served him well I'd say. I’ve never forgotten that advice.

 

[stratovani]

Welp, guess I'll start learning all scales and modes in all keys. Thanks for the advice, everyone. Maybe then I'll be able to play Nights In White Satin better!

 

[lfmn16]

I'm starting to regret ever asking that question!

I doubt most of the people beating you up can do it themselves.

 

[LowActionHero]

It's a great workout to do something really annoying, like play something you know one half step up, or down.

Then one day when your singer requests to drop a song down it's only slightly annoying.

But still annoying.

 

[stratovani]

I doubt most of the people beating you up can do it themselves.

That's very true!

 

[stratovani]

It's a great workout to do something really annoying, like play something you know one half step up, or down.

Then one day when your singer requests to drop a song down it's only slightly annoying.

But still annoying.

Our singer has already done it a couple of times. Free Fallin' is in the key of F, but that was a bit too high for him, so we transposed it to E, which was easier for him to sing. Easy peasy! Free Fallin' has just three chords, so that was a piece of cake. However, Rebels is in G, and he couldn't sing it, so we transposed it to E, which was way easier for him to sing. For that one I had to come up with a different bass line, which I did. Tougher, but we've been playing it for a few years now, so it's in my muscle memory.

 

[Max Bogosity]

If you can play in a different key by shifting a fretboard pattern up or down the neck, but you don't know what notes you're playing...

This is one of those things which I didn't even know that I didn't know until recently. I had a brief flirtation with playing the saxophone, which mostly taught me that I'll never be a sax player. But also that moving my fingers in the same shape in twelve different spots on the neck is not nearly the same thing as actually knowing what notes are in each chord or scale.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I wanted to clarify a post I made earlier referencing Jaco saying his dad advised him to learn the fingerboard in all keys.

I didn’t mean to insinuate that I personally had done so. I wish that I could make that claim and hopefully one day can. That would be a lifelong crowning musical achievement for me.

I won’t even go as far as to say that’s even necessary to be a competent gigging musician in a lot of genres.

My last comment is this. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic and the quarantine issue but it seems any time a post is started and responders don’t agree with the premise of the post offense is taken. Again, not my intention to belittle or offend.

 

[LowActionHero]

Our singer has already done it a couple of times. Free Fallin' is in the key of F, but that was a bit too high for him, so we transposed it to E, which was easier for him to sing. Easy peasy! Free Fallin' has just three chords, so that was a piece of cake. However, Rebels is in G, and he couldn't sing it, so we transposed it to E, which was way easier for him to sing. For that one I had to come up with a different bass line, which I did. Tougher, but we've been playing it for a few years now, so it's in my muscle memory.

We have an original that our main singer/guitar player wrote in A, then after playing it for a year or so thought it might sound better in E, did that for a couple months, now we're playing it in D. I didn't want to totally rewrite the bass line, I liked it, everyone else seemed to like it. So I kept transposing it down and finding other ways to play it as close as I could to the original version. Now I'm basically in Drop D but playing it an octave up.

 

[Mushroo]

This is one of those things which I didn't even know that I didn't know until recently. I had a brief flirtation with playing the saxophone, which mostly taught me that I'll never be a sax player. But also that moving my fingers in the same shape in twelve different spots on the neck is not nearly the same thing as actually knowing what notes are in each chord or scale.

One of the best exercises my teacher ever taught me is: Play all of the major scales, without ever going above the 4th fret. Instead of playing the scale from root to octave, start from the lowest note that "fits" the scale, and go up to the highest note that "fits." So for example, C Major scale starting on open low E and going up to B at the 4th fret of the G string. Or another example, Bb Major, you wouldn't start on low E (because it doesn't fit the scale) so you'd start on low F at the 1st fret of the E string, and go up to Bb at the 3rd fret of the G string.

Nothing "wrong" with the system of repositioning your hand when the music changes, so that you are always playing the same shapes, but that's certainly not the only way to play the bass.

 

[BAG]

Usually navigating verses and choruses in a new key is not too bad after one or two passes, but bridges and little turnarounds that happen once in the song can get dicey.

Yep.... i've been getting much better at playing in different keys, especially now that i've been charting and thinking in intervals a lot more. I'll see for instance a D, A, Em, G and just think 1, 5, 2m, 4. When the guitarist capos up 4 frets its easy to think of that sequence in the key of F#. But if I haven't looked at the bridge very carefully that's where i'll probably stuff up!

One of the best exercises my teacher ever taught me is: Play all of the major scales, without ever going above the 4th fret. Instead of playing the scale from root to octave, start from the lowest note that "fits" the scale, and go up to the highest note that "fits." So for example, C Major scale starting on open low E and going up to B at the 4th fret of the G string. Or another example, Bb Major, you wouldn't start on low E (because it doesn't fit the scale) so you'd start on low F at the 1st fret of the E string, and go up to Bb at the 3rd fret of the G string.

Nothing "wrong" with the system of repositioning your hand when the music changes, so that you are always playing the same shapes, but that's certainly not the only way to play the bass.

This is something i'll be doing more of. While I can transpose OK it's when I move back down the neck into open strings and the first couple of frets that I can get tripped up and might be forced to play in a higher register to avoid making mistakes till I take a few minutes to "re-learn" the song.

 

[consectaneus]

My free advice is worth what you are paying for it, but am hereby giving you permission to keep doing what you are doing. Pursue what interests you. If you are getting along fine then no problem. You can get fluent in another key or keys when and if the need arises and there is a reason to do so, or you may just feel like a challenge some day and do it.

 

[BAG]

My free advice is worth what you are paying for it, but am hereby giving you permission to keep doing what you are doing. Pursue what interests you. If you are getting along fine then no problem. You can get fluent in another key or keys when and if the need arises and there is a reason to do so, or you may just feel like a challenge some day and do it.

Exactly!
If you are happy with your playing and what you play, that's great. If you want to improve and be more comfortable whenever you play with other people a bit of work will pay dividends.

 

[stratovani]

Exactly!
If you are happy with your playing and what you play, that's great. If you want to improve and be more comfortable whenever you play with other people a bit of work will pay dividends.

Who knows when that will be. Right now all I do is record and send it to our singer who will blend all the band's output together and make a song out of it. This coronavirus lockdown is getting to me! I'm a bit testy these days, and my hair and beard are getting pretty long! Playing with others is the last thing on my mind!

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's a great workout to do something really annoying, like play something you know one half step up, or down.

Then one day when your singer requests to drop a song down it's only slightly annoying.

But still annoying.

Or not in the least bit annoying because it's really no big deal. That too is an option.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have Hipshot drop D tuners on my P Basses, and for some tunes, I drop it just to see things a different way. Pushes your brain in a way that doesn’t derail the tune at the gig, but it makes something you have done one way seem new. In the wedding band, “Superstition” was usually played in Eb. I dropped the D to get that sweet low open Eb. And while I don’t really like that song, it at least made it more interesting to play. And then when it was in E, a whole other experience.

Irealbook helps too for those on the fly key changes. Singer: “Can you play this song in this key?” Me: “Why yes I can [changes key in app].” : ) Singer: “[At the gig]Can you play “I Want You Back” a half step lower?” Me: “Really? A half step? Is that going to make this that much better for you?”

Or maybe there is key confusion and the tune starts, and no one knows what key it is because some people use “the first chord” as the key, and other people have hypertechnical opinions about what key a song should be. And everyone just sits on their hands except bassists and drummers because we can’t...just stop playing.

Yes... a half step can help a vocalist.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Why wouldn't one enable oneself to play anything presented, in all keys?

Too much work involved. Don't need to be "that" good.

We all have our own goals (or lack of them). It is kind of odd to express not wanting to learn while asking why you should. If you don't want to know things, are you looking for reasons why you should? I'm guessing that being prepared for the off chance that you'll need an ability isn't motivation enough for some.

I learn most songs intervallicly so transposing has always come easy for me. I understand the structure of the song vs. the notes. I came to realize that that is how I've listened to music since I was very young... recognizing shapes before I even played an instrument. Transposing was much more work on my first instrument (trumpet) because of the lack of symmetry in the fingerings. Bass is the opposite, very linear, which is a big part of why I was drawn to it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Welp, guess I'll start learning all scales and modes in all keys. Thanks for the advice, everyone. Maybe then I'll be able to play Nights In White Satin better!

Are you reading or playing by ear?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Some thing I don't get. Whenever someone says to practice something they always say "in all keys". Why? I can see it for jazzers, why always seem to play in flat keys, but as a strict rock player everything I play is in the key of E, D, G, A, or C, with the occasional F or B. Why would I want to learn something in a key I'll never play? I'm pretty proficient with major and minor pentatonic scales in the keys I mentioned, and it seems to work well in the songs I play.[/QUOTE

Some thing I don't get. Whenever someone says to practice something they always say "in all keys". Why? I can see it for jazzers, why always seem to play in flat keys, but as a strict rock player everything I play is in the key of E, D, G, A, or C, with the occasional F or B. Why would I want to learn something in a key I'll never play? I'm pretty proficient with major and minor pentatonic scales in the keys I mentioned, and it seems to work well in the songs I play.

Pretty much I work with vocal and horn bands, or bands that have both. It’s rare when we get song in the keys of E A D and G. I guess after a while you work out all those accidentals and life goes on. Seriously, there isn’t much difference in fingering between the keys Db or Eb other than being up two frets on the finger board.

Here a3re some examples. For rising scale, the interval from the tonic to the major third most of the time is the same from the tonic, go one string higher, and one fret towards the nut regardless of the key. The from tonic to the 5th, one string higher, 2 frets towards the bridge. Those are just two of many intervals that you need to memorize.

Where I would start is to memorize positions, is the tonic, the 4th and 5th, and relative minor intervals going up and down the scale, then start up the fingerboard by one fret. As you have mastered that, start doing the scales adding accidentals, and different intervals.

Once you get this together, transposition is not much of an issue. It will take some time, but once You have it down, your learning curve will drop dramatically.